Trait Audit Thread

Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 10 in Make It So!
On the old forum, @GilbertSmith had a thread for List of missing crew traits. I could have sworn we'd started something like that here on the new forum, but I couldn't find a consolidated thread. I'll try to update this first post to include whatever is pointed out by anyone else.

MISSING

Ambassador
Ambassador Fox
Ambassador Soval
Ambassador Spock
Ambassador Troi
Sarek
Suus Mahna Sarek

Android
Automated Unit 3947

Astrophysicist
Bell Riots Jadzia Dax
Seven in Blue
Seven of Nine
Temporal Agent Seven
Tourist Jadzia Dax
Tsunkatse Seven

Athlete
Anbo-Jyutsu Riker

Brutal
B'Etor Duras
First Goran'Agar
Lursa Duras
The Duras Sisters
Third Remata'Klan
Thot Gor

Caregiver
Ambassador K'Ehleyr

Communicator
Boxer Chakotay
Chancellor Gorkon

Courier
Resistance Neelix

Criminal
Arik Soong
Ardra
Harcourt Fenton Mudd
Sybok
The Professor
Time Loop Mudd

Cultural Figure
Ahdar Ru'afo
Changeling Founder
Emperor Philippa Georgiou

Desperate
Ahdar Ru'afo
Sulan

Duelist
Dahar Master Kang
Frank Hollander

Exobiology
Bell Riots Jadzia Dax
Blood Oath Jadzia Dax
Gangster Spock
Princess Jadzia
Tourist Jadzia Dax

Gambler
Bell Riots Jadzia Dax
Zhian'tara Odo

Human
Dr. Noah Hippocrates

Inspiring
Chancellor Gorkon

Investigator
Stranded Odo
Trader Odo
Umpire Odo
Zhian'tara Odo

Maverick
Captain Thadiun Okona
Pel
Profitable Ishka

Musician
Admiral Riker
Age of Sail Riker
Angel I Riker
Anbo-Jyutsu Riker
Botanist Keiko
Commander Riker
First Officer Riker
Lt Thomas Riker
Mintakan Riker
Pah-wraith Keiko
Will Riker

Physician
Command Hologram
The President of Earth

Pilot
Bell Riots Jadzia Dax
Cadet Wesley Crusher
Captain Thadiun Okona
Tourist Jadzia Dax

President
The President of Earth

Prisoner
Gladiator McCoy
Harcourt Fenton Mudd
Martia
Prisoner 'Bones' McCoy
Rura Penthe Kirk
Rura Penthe Reed
Victorian Pulaski

Quantum Mechanics
Seven in Blue
Seven of Nine
Temporal Agent Seven
Tsunkatse Seven

Resourceful
Commander Keras

Romulan
Shinzon [held political office of Romulan Praetor, albeit briefly]

Royalty
Queen Guinevere Kira

Scoundrel
Zhian'tara Odo

Shapeshifter [An ability to shift shape; distinct from Changeling, which is a race/species]
Changeling Bashir
Changeling Founder
Constable Odo
Investigator Odo
Jazz Musician Odo
Laas
Umpire Odo
Zhian'tara Odo

Smuggler
Resistance Neelix

Spiritual
Boxer Chakotay
Commander Chakotay
Maquis Chakotay
Temporal Prisoner Chakotay

Starfleet
Temporal Prisoner Chakotay

Tactician
Ahdar Ru'afo

Telekinetic
Tieran Possessed Kes

Theoretical Engineer
Ahdar Ru'afo

Thief
Berlinghoff Rasmussen
Morn

Veteran
Admiral Ross
Commander Keras
Prisoner O'Brien
Roga Danar

Villain
B'Etor Duras
Borg Queen
Lursa Duras
The Duras Sisters

Vulcan
Desert Michael Burnham
First Officer Michael Burnham
Graduation Michael Burnham*
Prisoner Michael Burnham
Prospect Michael Burnham*
Tactical Michael Burnham

*These personae are the most clearly Vulcan-minded Burnhams.

Spy vs. Undercover Operative
It seems that Spy is more of a vocation within the espionage field and Undercover Operative refers to agents in the field operating under a false identity, whether for espionage, detective work, etc. These changes would make the most sense. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive, neither are they necessarily the same thing.

Add Spy

Bashir, Julian Bashir
Ensign Seska
Garak, Elim Garak
Rakal Troi
Senator Vreenak

Add Undercover Operative

Breen Disguise Dukat
Colonel Karr
Disguised Tuvok
Laborer Spock
North Star Archer
North Star Tucker
Trader Odo
Xindi Prisoner Archer

Spy & Undercover Operative Changes
Agent Harris - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Anastasia Komananov - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Kazon Seska - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Luther Sloan - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Obsidian Order Garak - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Section 31 Reed - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Tailor Garak - Change Undercover Operative to Spy
Temporal Agent Daniels - Change Undercover Operative to Spy

Prisoners, Hostages, and Captives
Explained in depth by @Lady Gaghgagh here. Short version: Either rename Prisoner to be Captive, or create Hostage to distinguish from Prisoners.

Hostage, not Prisoner
Mintakan Troi
Temporal Prisoner Chakotay
Victorian Pulaski

Augments and Genetically Engineered
Explained in depth by @Matt_Decker and @Dirk Gunderson here.

Augment (Political Faction)
Arik Soong
Joachim
Malik
Marla McGivers
Persis
Starfleet Uniform Khan
Wrathful Khan
Young Khan

Genetically Engineered/Enhanced (Physiological Condition)
Alternate Future Bashir
Bashir, Julian Bashir
Bell Riots Bashir
CMO Bashir
Joachim
Malik
Persis
Racquetball Bashir
RAF Julian Bashir
Roga Danar
Silik
Starfleet Uniform Khan
Wrathful Khan
Young Khan

SHOULD BE REMOVED

Admiral Ross - Cultural Figure
Ambassador K'Ehleyr - Brutal
Commander T'Pol - High Command
Dr. Gillian Taylor - Physician
Duelist Torres - Athlete
Grand Nagus Rom - Bajoran
Kazon Seska - Bajoran, Undercover Operative
Mirror Intendant Kira - Cardassian, Klingon
Mirror Regent Worf - Cardassian
Mirror Vic Fontaine - Musician
Obsidian Order Garak - Romantic
Smitten Jean-Luc Picard - Musician
Xindi Prisoner Archer - Costumed

FIXED!
Bartender Guinan - Civilian
Commander Keras - Tactician added, Villain removed
Herbert Rossoff - Costumed removed
Obsidian Order Garak - Interrogator
Rakal Troi - Tal Shiar created and added
Senator Vreenak - Tal Shiar created and added
Zefram Cochrane - Pilot
«13456789

Comments

  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6
    I remember his list being here in the new site. I also thought DB had already implemented his list. Though I do believe they have errors.

    shapeshifter throughs me. I think they all have the changeling trait.
    What is going on here. Are these the same trait? Should there be only one.

    Maybe Yarnek is the question. He is listed as shapeshifter only.
    Maybe one trait still makes sense. Must decide which it should be changeling or shapeshifter.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    I remember his list being here in the new site. I also thought DB had already implemented his list. Though I do believe they have errors.

    shapeshifter throughs me. I think they all have the changeling trait.
    What is going on here. Are these the same trait? Should there be only one.

    Maybe Yarnek is the question. He is listed as shapeshifter only.
    Maybe one trait still makes sense. Must decide which it should be changeling or shapeshifter.

    Martia and Yarnek are shapeshifters without being Changelings. IOW, all Changelings are shapeshifters but not all shapeshifters are Changelings.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    I remember his list being here in the new site. I also thought DB had already implemented his list. Though I do believe they have errors.

    I could have sworn it had been ported over, too, but I couldn't find such a thread; just numerous individual threads about a particular character or a few characters. @DB Koz did review the thread on the old forum and make a lot of revisions based on it, but that was quite some time ago. During one of the more recent client builds, there were something like 20 or 30 trait revisions made, but nothing significant since then.
    shapeshifter throughs me. I think they all have the changeling trait.
    What is going on here. Are these the same trait? Should there be only one.

    Maybe Yarnek is the question. He is listed as shapeshifter only.
    Maybe one trait still makes sense. Must decide which it should be changeling or shapeshifter.

    Think of it this way: A shapeshifter is any being who can change their physical form. Such beings include, but are not limited to, Martia (a Chameloid) and Silik (a Suliban who had been genetically altered to have the ability). A Changeling is a member of a specific race of beings who possess the ability to change their physical form. Members of this race include, but are not limited to, Odo, Laas, Changeling Founder, and Changeling Bashir.

    Side note: Odo was, for a time, made "solid" and did not have the ability to change his physical form. He was still a Changeling, however, as that's his race. Odo personae based on appearances from that period, such as Trader Odo, should have the Changeling trait, but not the Shapeshifter trait.


  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13
    I was wondering if changeling was used for race.

    The Athlete trait probably should be on Ushaan Archer and Shran.
    Especially since Gladiator McCoy gets it.

    I also have seen Gilbert posting again. So maybe he will see this at some point. If we keep this near the top.

    Edit:** Rethinking this I think Ushaan Archer and Ushaan Shran are as listed duelists and not athletes. However, Gladiator McCoy should not be listed as an athlete. My confusion came from McCoy. **

    I think the question might be what the term athlete is being used for. It is clear that Anbo-Jyutsu Riker is an athlete, the Niner are athletes and Hockey cards are athletes, Tsunkatse Seven goes through a training so she is both athlete and duelist.

    I cannot remember Duelist Torres so not sure if she is just duelist or both.
    Wiki mentioned it as the Kal-if-fee and now I remember. Torres should not be athlete just duelist.

    Does it make sense that Delta Flyer Paris is? I suppose this would be considered like race car drivers. I am just not sure if piloting the Delta Flyer is the same as a race car.

    One last comment the duelist for Ushaan and Kal-if-fee are doing something athletic. But this alone might not be enough for the athlete trait. McCoy never went through any training and clearly should not be listed as athlete.

    Now I am thinking I believe we have Archer going though training for a couple minutes in episode, as well as being told (I think) Shran is training. Not sure now which way it should be with them.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Should there be only one.

    8zw5n0i03r34.jpg
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Athletics

    Gladiator battles and the Tsunkatse cage matches are brutal and sadistic, but ultimately still classified as sporting events. That McCoy and Seven were participating involuntarily/under coercion seems too peripheral to let it detract from the fact they did perform. Centuries ago, there were plenty of gladiators who were no more skilled or willing than McCoy had been. They're still considered gladiators.

    Conversely, I feel like the Ushaan and Kal-if-fee duels are more ritual combats rather than sporting events. These aren't recreational or even vocational physical competitions. They're only prompted by specific circumstances as defined by codes of tradition. There's no Ushaan league or Kal-if-fee All-Star Game.

    As regards Delta Flyer Paris, it was indeed presented that he was engaging in the 24th Century equivalent of stock car racing, which is classified today as a sport.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14
    When it comes to gladiator McCoy he went through no training at all. He should not be classified as athlete. But should still be Duelist. Even though he was an unwilling participant.

    There is more to an athlete then standing with a bat in hand. A pitcher throws three strikes and your out. What athleticism is displayed by not being able to swing.

    I agree about Ushaan and Kal-if-fee being duels of the moment. And that also is McCoy a duel of the moment. Thrust into a position to defend his life.

    @Dralix
    I do not know when but I too was thinking of Highlander.
    Now I remember, the Enterprise episode wasn’t the villain from highlander in an episode. I was trying to think of an athletic version of Archer(considering they were always implying he played water polo) and that episode came to mine. The one where they are playing a lacrosse like game in the desert.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Now I remember, the Enterprise episode wasn’t the villain from highlander in an episode.

    I've never seen Enterprise, but Clancy Brown is indeed listed on Memory Alpha with an appearance.

    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Clancy_Brown
  • President of The Earth EMH lacks the President trait.
    Proud Member of Everlong and avid Star Trek Fan

  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    President of The Earth EMH lacks the President trait.

    Added!
  • Get ready:

    Since Sarek is the Vulcan ambassador, all versions need Ambassador

    Resistance Neelix needs Courier

    Groundskeeper Boothby maybe needs the gardener trait (not so sure though)

    I don't think Vic Fontaine is a merchant, so that needs to be removed

    Morn was apart of the Lisseppian Mothers Day Heist, so he needs the thief trait
    Proud Member of Everlong and avid Star Trek Fan

  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Updated to include Exobiology as a trait missing from Gangster Spock and Klingon Bride Jadzia. Adding that trait would make them eligible bonus crew for next week's event, "Research Partners".
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭
    Dralix wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Now I remember, the Enterprise episode wasn’t the villain from highlander in an episode.

    I've never seen Enterprise, but Clancy Brown is indeed listed on Memory Alpha with an appearance.

    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Clancy_Brown
    Yep that was him.
    After I wrote that post the episode came on here in Chicago on Metv on rerun.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17
    Need to add Duelist Torres to removal of athlete. That was a Kal-if-fee with Vorik.
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited March 18
    Why the Borg Queen, the personification of an entire race that are basically villains of the Star Trek TNG era don't have the 'villain' trait makes little sense to me.

    So, DB, when you guys will give her this missing trait?

    Also, Burham should have Vulcan too. She was raised in their culture.
  • Zefram Cochrane maybe should have the pilot trait I think.
  • edited March 22
    Boothby is missing the Gardener trait
    Holonovel Doctor is missing the Romantic trait
    Hey, DB! Maybe you should add the Q trait to the game considering there are 6 versions of Q (and hopefully more to come) soooo..... maybe it is a good idea eh?
    Disruptor Beam = Do Better !
  • Odo Marmarosa Odo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭
    Now that the Xenoanthropology trait exists, versions of Chakotay (except maybe Warship Chakotay) should have it. Spiritual triat as well.
  • edited March 20
    I'd like Seven of Nine to have more traits like Astrophysicist, Quantum Mechanic and Resourceful. Berlinghoff Rasmussen should have Thief and the Duras Sisters should have Brutal and Villain (both individuals and fused versions).

    Lon Suder should not have the Telepath trait and I don't think Picard should be considered an Astrophysicist.
  • Zetterbeard Zetterbeard ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lon Suder should not have the Telepath trait and I don't think Picard should be considered an Astrophysicist.

    Suder is a telepath though (Betazoid).

    Did anyone else notice only Chief Engineer Torres has the Innovator trait? Shouldn't all versions on B'Elanna have Innovator?
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20
    Suder is a telepath though (Betazoid).

    I can't find a cite, like on Memory Alpha, but I'm almost certain it was mentioned that he was non telepathic, unusual for a Betazoid.
    Did anyone else notice only Chief Engineer Torres has the Innovator trait? Shouldn't all versions on B'Elanna have Innovator?

    This type of thing is mentioned a lot, and in general, I don't agree. For Torres, I don't think innovator fits Duelist or Liaison, for instance. Captain Zulu was given pilot after his introduction. While I agree that he didn't forget how to pilot a ship, when he was captain, he had people for that.

    That's why I'm not so bothered by all the trait inconsistencies. Many of them, in my opinion, are very situational or subjective.
  • Odo Marmarosa Odo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭
    Lon Suder should not have the Telepath trait and I don't think Picard should be considered an Astrophysicist.

    Other Betazeds have the empath trait to represent their mental ability (which Sudar, as a psycopath, logically lacks). I always thought the Telepath trait represented the results of his mind-meld therapy with Tuvok.
  • Hunter247Hunter247 ✭✭✭
    Lon Suder should not have the Telepath trait and I don't think Picard should be considered an Astrophysicist.

    Other Betazeds have the empath trait to represent their mental ability (which Sudar, as a psycopath, logically lacks). I always thought the Telepath trait represented the results of his mind-meld therapy with Tuvok.

    I thought most Betazeds were normal telepaths with only Deanna an empath because she was half human.

    But Sudar lacked even that I believe
  • Hunter247Hunter247 ✭✭✭
    Should Dabo Girl Leeta have the Ferengi trait? Technician Rom has Bajorian I believe because he works for the Bajorians and is married to Leeta. So it seems odd that Leeta who works for a Ferengi and is married one doesn't have the Ferengi trait
  • Odo Marmarosa Odo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭
    Hunter247 wrote: »
    Lon Suder should not have the Telepath trait and I don't think Picard should be considered an Astrophysicist.

    Other Betazeds have the empath trait to represent their mental ability (which Sudar, as a psycopath, logically lacks). I always thought the Telepath trait represented the results of his mind-meld therapy with Tuvok.

    I thought most Betazeds were normal telepaths with only Deanna an empath because she was half human.

    But Sudar lacked even that I believe

    D'oh I think you're right. Mama Troi is indeed a full Telepath.
  • A trait that definitely should be removed is Section 31 from Agent Janeway. Janeway is from The Killing Game, she has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Section 31!!
    This is just a downright error
    Disruptor Beam = Do Better !
  • ·§ë· Xoiiku·§ë· Xoiiku ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24
    A trait that definitely should be removed is Section 31 from Agent Janeway. Janeway is from The Killing Game, she has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Section 31!!
    This is just a downright error

    During the event in which she was introduced, Alpha and Omega, Agent Janeway was working with the section 31 faction.
    Agent Janeway: "Section 31 has detected traces of the Omega molecule right here in the Alpha Quadrant. A single molecule in the wrong hands could kill hundreds. A whole chain could wipe out a civilization. Your job, and mine, is to make sure that doesn't happen."

    In the context of the game, this trait is not probably an error, it is plausibly something that she gained when the temporal anomalies pulled her from her own timeline and put her in a different situation where she started making different choices to the ones she did in that episode.

    I'd be curious to know what people are basing their opinions on, in terms of if a trait belongs or doesn't belong. I may have missed it somewhere but I've never seen a design briefing from DB stating that crew would only have traits that they exhibited in the episode that version of the character was derived from.

    I think it's reasonable to look at a character both in the context of what they are doing now in this timeline and in the broader context of core traits iconic to and consistent with their character overall. Seems to me that additional traits specific to that version should add to, rather than subtract from those core traits (and for that matter skills).

    Edit: I went over to the bridge and it seems that this Agent Janeway question was also being discussed, and looks to have begun there, starting about here Key information about next week’s event: The Prime Directive (re-run) - 03/29.
    We are all downstream from each other and ourselves, therefore choose to be relaxed and groovy.
    Consider participating in civil discourse, understanding the Tardigrade, and wandering with the Subspace Eddies.
  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    In other words, she has Section 31 for storyline reasons. The Janeway that is true to The Killing Game is called Katrine.
  • Zetterbeard Zetterbeard ✭✭✭✭✭
    Out of everyone in the game, I think one of the most desperate people is Sulan, and he does not have that trait.
  • Saavik is missing the Romulan trait
    Disruptor Beam = Do Better !
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