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  • Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.
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    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    This is a good debate. It is hard to say, on one hand I completely agree, but then there’s the evidence that Deanna and Riker were able to communicate telepathically in Encounter at Farpoint.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    This is a good debate. It is hard to say, on one hand I completely agree, but then there’s the evidence that Deanna and Riker were able to communicate telepathically in Encounter at Farpoint.

    It's definitely an inconsistency, as Troi and Riker didn't keep up that connection, though the idea of "Imzadi" certainly was perpetuated. Interesting discussion of it here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/99463/why-did-they-abandon-the-idea-of-telepathy-between-troi-and-riker
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    This is a good debate. It is hard to say, on one hand I completely agree, but then there’s the evidence that Deanna and Riker were able to communicate telepathically in Encounter at Farpoint.

    It's definitely an inconsistency, as Troi and Riker didn't keep up that connection, though the idea of "Imzadi" certainly was perpetuated. Interesting discussion of it here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/99463/why-did-they-abandon-the-idea-of-telepathy-between-troi-and-riker

    Quite true, so I suppose Deanna doesn't really need [telepath]. I'll remove it.

    Speaking of telepaths though, I was wondering if Fennim would have the trait or not. The Think Tank communicated telepathically with the use of a device, but whether Fennim would have it innately is unsure as it is uncertain if any of them were able to communicate telepathically without the device. One could imagine that one of them might be telepathic and is the one who thought to create a device to that all my be able to communicate that way, without one being the interpreter for all the others, all the time.

    I also added all versions of Kes for needing [telepath]. She was able to communicate telepathically quite often, and also could sense things mentally like unseen intruders or even across alternate realities (though this last one might not be telepath-related).

    I also added Michael Sullivan for needing [human].
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    Er, you obviously missed the end of Nemesis? Deanna telepathically projected her thoughts onto the Viceroy, paralyzing/distracting him.

    Throughout TNG episodes:
    She projects her thoughts to Riker on more than a few occasions.

    She projects her thoughts (in a precisely timed event) to the "invisible" aliens through directed dreaming during the crisis of being caught in the Tyken's rift in "Night Terrors".

    Memory Alpha says about Deanna Troi: "Like most Betazoids, Troi had telepathic abilities."

    I don't think that should be deleted.
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    Er, you obviously missed the end of Nemesis? Deanna telepathically projected her thoughts onto the Viceroy, paralyzing/distracting him.

    Throughout TNG episodes:
    She projects her thoughts to Riker on more than a few occasions.

    She projects her thoughts (in a precisely timed event) to the "invisible" aliens through directed dreaming during the crisis of being caught in the Tyken's rift in "Night Terrors".

    Memory Alpha says about Deanna Troi: "Like most Betazoids, Troi had telepathic abilities."

    I don't think that should be deleted.

    Such a vigorous discussion, I love it. Let’s all weigh in on all these facts about Deanna and her potential for the [telepath] trait.
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  • Found another one. I was surprised today when entering a new Gauntlet that Guinan was NOT a "duelist"!

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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    Er, you obviously missed the end of Nemesis? Deanna telepathically projected her thoughts onto the Viceroy, paralyzing/distracting him.

    Throughout TNG episodes:
    She projects her thoughts to Riker on more than a few occasions.

    She projects her thoughts (in a precisely timed event) to the "invisible" aliens through directed dreaming during the crisis of being caught in the Tyken's rift in "Night Terrors".

    Memory Alpha says about Deanna Troi: "Like most Betazoids, Troi had telepathic abilities."

    I don't think that should be deleted.

    Did not miss the end of Nemesis. Just watched it a week or two ago. Viceroy (who was telepathic) sensed Troi looking for him, and said "she's here," but she did not project any thoughts to him, nor was he paralyzed by her. He sensed what she was doing -- trying to sense where exactly he was -- and then he communicated that to Shinzon. There's no evidence the Viceroy "hears" her thoughts when she says "Remember me?" Dialogue:

    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: Captain, I think I may have a way to find them.
    [Scimitar bridge]
    SHINZON: Prepare a lateral run. All starboard disruptors.
    (the Viceroy suddenly stiffens)
    SHINZON: What is it? ...What is it?
    VICEROY: She's here!
    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: He's resisting me.
    [Scimitar bridge]
    VICEROY: No!
    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: Remember ...me? ...Now!
    (Worf instantly fires a full volley of photon torpedoes)
    PICARD: Fire at will!
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Yet another inconsistency with holograms and race traits: Musketeer Picard does not have the human trait. (Edit: Neither does Jack Crusher.)

    This really needs to be an all-or-nothing proposition, DB. Either holograms have the race trait of the person they're appearing as, or not.

    Some will say the Doctor is an exception — but then Minuet has the human trait, so that doesn't hold water, either.

    Since it's not particularly optimal to remove traits from a bunch of holos, then we need to have race traits added to all the holos who don't have them.

    This is a good point. I have added both of them to the list.
    Trait addition: Telepath
    to All Deanna Troi characters.

    Watching Nemesis again, and as Shinzon is introducing himself and addressing each crew and their backgrounds, he specifically says: Deanna Troi...Empathic and Telepathic abilities...

    This is further proven my the many times on TNG she has communicated someone via her mind only. (Yes, generally only with her mother, but even Lwaxana brings up her not using her telepathic abilities on one episode.)

    Quite true, while Deanna isn't so much as telepathically projective, she is telepathically receptive. And with Deanna being half, it seems her telepathic potential is limited, possibly to only those she is close with. Remember in the first seasons of TNG, she and Riker communicated via telepathy.

    I don't think this is right. All telepaths are empaths -- if they can read thoughts, they can sense others' presence and emotion -- but not all empaths are telepaths. The series consistently drew a line between a true telepath -- like Lwaxana or a Vulcan or the Keeper of Talos IV -- and an empath, like Deanna. Deanna couldn't read others' thoughts; Lwaxana could, as could Spock or Tuvok during a mind meld. She could communicate with other Betazoids telepathically, but she couldn't read their thoughts either. Even in the case with Shinzon's Reman Viceroy, she could sense him (as she could consistently sense others on the show), but she wasn't communicating with him; she could never project her thoughts to him the way that the Reman Viceroy was able to do to her. So I think labelling her an empath, as it was understood on the show, is accurate.

    Er, you obviously missed the end of Nemesis? Deanna telepathically projected her thoughts onto the Viceroy, paralyzing/distracting him.

    Throughout TNG episodes:
    She projects her thoughts to Riker on more than a few occasions.

    She projects her thoughts (in a precisely timed event) to the "invisible" aliens through directed dreaming during the crisis of being caught in the Tyken's rift in "Night Terrors".

    Memory Alpha says about Deanna Troi: "Like most Betazoids, Troi had telepathic abilities."

    I don't think that should be deleted.

    Did not miss the end of Nemesis. Just watched it a week or two ago. Viceroy (who was telepathic) sensed Troi looking for him, and said "she's here," but she did not project any thoughts to him, nor was he paralyzed by her. He sensed what she was doing -- trying to sense where exactly he was -- and then he communicated that to Shinzon. There's no evidence the Viceroy "hears" her thoughts when she says "Remember me?" Dialogue:

    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: Captain, I think I may have a way to find them.
    [Scimitar bridge]
    SHINZON: Prepare a lateral run. All starboard disruptors.
    (the Viceroy suddenly stiffens)
    SHINZON: What is it? ...What is it?
    VICEROY: She's here!
    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: He's resisting me.
    [Scimitar bridge]
    VICEROY: No!
    [Enterprise-E bridge]
    TROI: Remember ...me? ...Now!
    (Worf instantly fires a full volley of photon torpedoes)
    PICARD: Fire at will!

    I would actually argue then that him stiffening up and him having to resist her means that she’s using telepathy to try and control if not at least interrupt him.

    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
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    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
    Collections Completed: Vulcan, Ferengi, Borg, Romulan, Cardassian, Uncommon, Rare, Veteran, Common, Engineered, Physician, Innovator, Inspiring, Diplomat, Jury Rigger, Gauntlet Legends
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)

    I’ll get one installed at Utopia Planetia
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.

    Will add.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)

    I’ll get one installed at Utopia Planetia
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.

    Will add.

    Seconded, and while your at it, since "Enterprise-E Picard" is the one at the helm of the other shuttle...?

    Which could spring a whole debate about how Starfleet trains ALL it's officers to pilot shuttles. Just sayin'. ;)
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)

    I’ll get one installed at Utopia Planetia
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.

    Will add.

    Seconded, and while your at it, since "Enterprise-E Picard" is the one at the helm of the other shuttle...?

    Which could spring a whole debate about how Starfleet trains ALL it's officers to pilot shuttles. Just sayin'. ;)

    Hmm I would say no about the Enterprise-E Picard crew card. HMS Pinafore Data is specifically from that piloting scene. Enterprise-E Picard is not.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)

    I’ll get one installed at Utopia Planetia
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.

    Will add.

    Seconded, and while your at it, since "Enterprise-E Picard" is the one at the helm of the other shuttle...?

    Which could spring a whole debate about how Starfleet trains ALL it's officers to pilot shuttles. Just sayin'. ;)

    Hmm I would say no about the Enterprise-E Picard crew card. HMS Pinafore Data is specifically from that piloting scene. Enterprise-E Picard is not.

    Mambo Picard then? Since he has already piloted the shuttle to capture HMS Data? Or should we wait for an HMS Sing-along Picard? :D

    I agree Enterprise-E Picard is more from First Contact, where Mambo Picard is specifically from Insurrection. (And specifically piloting a shuttle.) Oh, and they allude to Picard "taking out the Captain's Yacht", a bit later, which would have also made him a pilot.
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Captain of the Queen of Bashir, the first luxury starship cruiseliner.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Now featuring Cabana boys: Trip Tucker and Thadiun Okona

    I love your signature line. One of the more creative ones in the forum. You need a Parallaxan mud bath to go with the Trill spa, though. ;)

    I’ll get one installed at Utopia Planetia
    New Topic: HMS Pinafore Data
    Trait to Add: Pilot

    Rationale: In the scene in question, where Picard and Worf are singing -- and get Data to sing along -- Data is piloting a Federation Scout Ship. In that moment, which is what this character is about, he's a pilot.

    Will add.

    Seconded, and while your at it, since "Enterprise-E Picard" is the one at the helm of the other shuttle...?

    Which could spring a whole debate about how Starfleet trains ALL it's officers to pilot shuttles. Just sayin'. ;)

    Hmm I would say no about the Enterprise-E Picard crew card. HMS Pinafore Data is specifically from that piloting scene. Enterprise-E Picard is not.

    Mambo Picard then? Since he has already piloted the shuttle to capture HMS Data? Or should we wait for an HMS Sing-along Picard? :D

    I agree Enterprise-E Picard is more from First Contact, where Mambo Picard is specifically from Insurrection. (And specifically piloting a shuttle.) Oh, and they allude to Picard "taking out the Captain's Yacht", a bit later, which would have also made him a pilot.

    Wait for an HMS sing-along Picard, or another one from a moment when he was piloting. Few of the crew are considered a pilot as a general trait. Riker is one, as his piloting skill was frequently cited. So he carried the trait regularly. But for most others, it should be when he/she is specifically using the trait. That's how special ability traits generally work in the game. . .

    . . . but not always. I think they way the extended the Musician trait all over the place was a mistake. This version of Data -- he's singing -- should be a Musician. Other generic versions of him, however, I don't think should be.
    Fleet: Starship Trista
    Captain Level: 95
    VIP Level: 12
    Unique Crew Immortalized: 525
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  • Allow me to go on about the Human trait for a minute or two, if you will. I noticed that in the beginning post pretty much all the different versions of the Doctor or EMH were listed as lacking Human. Also, it’s been noted here and elsewhere that for the sake of consistency and sense DB should assign appropriate racial traits to Holograms. I agree with that sentiment, for the most part.

    In the case of Holograms that are programmed to believe they are a particular race or those that personally identify as a race other than just being a hologram, I would say yes, those crew members need racial traits added. However, I also think that there are definitely some Hologram characters that do neither. The Doctor falls into this category in my opinion as would the plain old EMH.

    They may have been physically based off of humans and even have personality traits coded into them, but they still identify first and foremost as a Hologram. Just watch some of the Doctor specific episodes of Voyager and you’ll see that time and time again, he seees himself as a holographic lifeform, not as a human being. He believes that this is just another form of sentient life and that’s fine and dandy, but it’s still not human, even if it looks like it, sometimes acts like it, and ultimately was birthed from it. The Doctor and EMH are just the off-the-top-of-my-head examples and I’m sure there are a few more. Mind you, this is just an opinion, though I feel it’s likely similar to what DB is thinking in regards.

    Finally, concerning the Human trait again but not photonic beings this time, I’d like to suggest that Orion Vina should actually have the Human trait added to her. After all, she was disguised as an Orion through costume and the telepathic illusions created by the Talosians. She was never actually fully an Orion slave girl, so I think she should have both Orion and Human. Also, for those not aware, she’s a human to begin with and she just LOOKS like an Orion in that scene.
    Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Allow me to go on about the Human trait for a minute or two, if you will. I noticed that in the beginning post pretty much all the different versions of the Doctor or EMH were listed as lacking Human. Also, it’s been noted here and elsewhere that for the sake of consistency and sense DB should assign appropriate racial traits to Holograms. I agree with that sentiment, for the most part.

    In the case of Holograms that are programmed to believe they are a particular race or those that personally identify as a race other than just being a hologram, I would say yes, those crew members need racial traits added. However, I also think that there are definitely some Hologram characters that do neither. The Doctor falls into this category in my opinion as would the plain old EMH.

    They may have been physically based off of humans and even have personality traits coded into them, but they still identify first and foremost as a Hologram. Just watch some of the Doctor specific episodes of Voyager and you’ll see that time and time again, he seees himself as a holographic lifeform, not as a human being. He believes that this is just another form of sentient life and that’s fine and dandy, but it’s still not human, even if it looks like it, sometimes acts like it, and ultimately was birthed from it. The Doctor and EMH are just the off-the-top-of-my-head examples and I’m sure there are a few more. Mind you, this is just an opinion, though I feel it’s likely similar to what DB is thinking in regards.

    Finally, concerning the Human trait again but not photonic beings this time, I’d like to suggest that Orion Vina should actually have the Human trait added to her. After all, she was disguised as an Orion through costume and the telepathic illusions created by the Talosians. She was never actually fully an Orion slave girl, so I think she should have both Orion and Human. Also, for those not aware, she’s a human to begin with and she just LOOKS like an Orion in that scene.

    I’m also wondering if she shouldn’t have Talosian. She was with them a long time and essentially a part of their culture by that point.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Allow me to go on about the Human trait for a minute or two, if you will. I noticed that in the beginning post pretty much all the different versions of the Doctor or EMH were listed as lacking Human. Also, it’s been noted here and elsewhere that for the sake of consistency and sense DB should assign appropriate racial traits to Holograms. I agree with that sentiment, for the most part.

    In the case of Holograms that are programmed to believe they are a particular race or those that personally identify as a race other than just being a hologram, I would say yes, those crew members need racial traits added. However, I also think that there are definitely some Hologram characters that do neither. The Doctor falls into this category in my opinion as would the plain old EMH.

    They may have been physically based off of humans and even have personality traits coded into them, but they still identify first and foremost as a Hologram. Just watch some of the Doctor specific episodes of Voyager and you’ll see that time and time again, he seees himself as a holographic lifeform, not as a human being. He believes that this is just another form of sentient life and that’s fine and dandy, but it’s still not human, even if it looks like it, sometimes acts like it, and ultimately was birthed from it. The Doctor and EMH are just the off-the-top-of-my-head examples and I’m sure there are a few more. Mind you, this is just an opinion, though I feel it’s likely similar to what DB is thinking in regards.

    Finally, concerning the Human trait again but not photonic beings this time, I’d like to suggest that Orion Vina should actually have the Human trait added to her. After all, she was disguised as an Orion through costume and the telepathic illusions created by the Talosians. She was never actually fully an Orion slave girl, so I think she should have both Orion and Human. Also, for those not aware, she’s a human to begin with and she just LOOKS like an Orion in that scene.

    I’m also wondering if she shouldn’t have Talosian. She was with them a long time and essentially a part of their culture by that point.

    I agree completely, the whole hologram character set ++ needs a complete overhaul.

    As for Vina, just as Mintakan Troi & Riker have both Mintakan and their additional native races added (and Vulcan for some strange reason only DB can fathom, but there's a whole other can of worms – don't get me started!) so, too, should she be human, Talosian, AND Orion.
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Allow me to go on about the Human trait for a minute or two, if you will. I noticed that in the beginning post pretty much all the different versions of the Doctor or EMH were listed as lacking Human. Also, it’s been noted here and elsewhere that for the sake of consistency and sense DB should assign appropriate racial traits to Holograms. I agree with that sentiment, for the most part.

    In the case of Holograms that are programmed to believe they are a particular race or those that personally identify as a race other than just being a hologram, I would say yes, those crew members need racial traits added. However, I also think that there are definitely some Hologram characters that do neither. The Doctor falls into this category in my opinion as would the plain old EMH.

    They may have been physically based off of humans and even have personality traits coded into them, but they still identify first and foremost as a Hologram. Just watch some of the Doctor specific episodes of Voyager and you’ll see that time and time again, he seees himself as a holographic lifeform, not as a human being. He believes that this is just another form of sentient life and that’s fine and dandy, but it’s still not human, even if it looks like it, sometimes acts like it, and ultimately was birthed from it. The Doctor and EMH are just the off-the-top-of-my-head examples and I’m sure there are a few more. Mind you, this is just an opinion, though I feel it’s likely similar to what DB is thinking in regards.

    Finally, concerning the Human trait again but not photonic beings this time, I’d like to suggest that Orion Vina should actually have the Human trait added to her. After all, she was disguised as an Orion through costume and the telepathic illusions created by the Talosians. She was never actually fully an Orion slave girl, so I think she should have both Orion and Human. Also, for those not aware, she’s a human to begin with and she just LOOKS like an Orion in that scene.

    I’m also wondering if she shouldn’t have Talosian. She was with them a long time and essentially a part of their culture by that point.

    I didn’t even think about that one but you guys are right. Talosian as well.
    Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to shade DB too much, but sometimes I think they see us quibbling about traits and think "it's just some characteristics, what's the big deal? Who cares if Vina has Talosian, it's not a trait we're ever going to use on voyage slots or gauntlet bonuses." I mean let's look below...

    ulyuqu7f37jl.png
    pknjy61dc62z.png

    DB does get around to fixing some traits, but they still seem to largely ignore this thread. Missing [Starfleet] and [Federation], traits which are essential to Picard as Galen's character, Galen was really about in the same boat as Temporal Prisoner Chakotay still is currently. Being a graduate of [Starfleet] Academy and serving in the role of [Starfleet] officer onboard Voyager, as well as being [Spiritual] are quintessential parts of who Chakotay is in the Voyager series. Never mind that it's Temporal Prisoner Chakotay, all Chakotays, with perhaps the except of Warship Chakotay since he is a made-up hologram and Maquis Chakotay as he is not in his officer role nor onboard Voyager, should have the [Starfleet] trait and the [Spiritual] trait.
    It is a massive oversight that this has still yet to be fixed over a year later. I mean when he was released he didn't even have the [Federation] trait, yet DB fixed that within a month of release, but why do [Starfleet] and [Spiritual] continue to evade DB when it comes to Chakotay and this version of him respectively. Both traits limit TP Chakotay's effectiveness on a voyage or if used in gauntlet. How hard is it to add in a trait, and then add that character to the list command involving said traits so that they activate those traits properly when used?

    There's two things here...
    1) there are a lot of traits which do go to voyage slots or gauntlet bonuses that are essential for the accuracy of a character's portrayal yet are crucially missing, as seen above.

    2) even if some traits are somewhat menial and will never appear in a voyage or gauntlet, it's the principle of defining/describing characters correctly to Star Trek lore. Sure, [Talosian] may never be in a gauntlet or voyage, but it is a defining component of Vina as a character in a beloved franchise. We play this game because it's fun, it's interesting, and it usually gets the lore correct. But when the game does miss some of the lore, we offer corrections, not to be nitpicky, but to increase informedness, improve fans' experiences of the game, and help maintain accurate portrayals of Star Trek lore.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Well said. Now if we could just get them to listen and care.
    Weirdly enough, I’m also Vulcan Housewife. Also, RNGesus hates me, like really, REALLY hates me.
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    New trait.
    Addition of a new trait: Engineered.
    This trait applies to all characters who have been modified.

    This trait was created to have a distinction between characters from Khan's faction: the Augments, and other characters having also undergone some enhancements. As such characters from the Augment faction will have both the Augment trait and the Engineered trait.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to shade DB too much, but sometimes I think they see us quibbling about traits and think "it's just some characteristics, what's the big deal? Who cares if Vina has Talosian, it's not a trait we're ever going to use on voyage slots or gauntlet bonuses." I mean let's look below...

    ulyuqu7f37jl.png
    pknjy61dc62z.png

    DB does get around to fixing some traits, but they still seem to largely ignore this thread. Missing [Starfleet] and [Federation], traits which are essential to Picard as Galen's character, Galen was really about in the same boat as Temporal Prisoner Chakotay still is currently. Being a graduate of [Starfleet] Academy and serving in the role of [Starfleet] officer onboard Voyager, as well as being [Spiritual] are quintessential parts of who Chakotay is in the Voyager series. Never mind that it's Temporal Prisoner Chakotay, all Chakotays, with perhaps the except of Warship Chakotay since he is a made-up hologram and Maquis Chakotay as he is not in his officer role nor onboard Voyager, should have the [Starfleet] trait and the [Spiritual] trait.
    It is a massive oversight that this has still yet to be fixed over a year later. I mean when he was released he didn't even have the [Federation] trait, yet DB fixed that within a month of release, but why do [Starfleet] and [Spiritual] continue to evade DB when it comes to Chakotay and this version of him respectively. Both traits limit TP Chakotay's effectiveness on a voyage or if used in gauntlet. How hard is it to add in a trait, and then add that character to the list command involving said traits so that they activate those traits properly when used?

    There's two things here...
    1) there are a lot of traits which do go to voyage slots or gauntlet bonuses that are essential for the accuracy of a character's portrayal yet are crucially missing, as seen above.

    2) even if some traits are somewhat menial and will never appear in a voyage or gauntlet, it's the principle of defining/describing characters correctly to Star Trek lore. Sure, [Talosian] may never be in a gauntlet or voyage, but it is a defining component of Vina as a character in a beloved franchise. We play this game because it's fun, it's interesting, and it usually gets the lore correct. But when the game does miss some of the lore, we offer corrections, not to be nitpicky, but to increase informedness, improve fans' experiences of the game, and help maintain accurate portrayals of Star Trek lore.

    I can’t fathom how all of these traits would be missing for game balance reasons either. That’s the usual explanation, and one that doesn’t really work for either Galen or Chakotay.
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    New trait.
    Addition of a new trait: Engineered.
    This trait applies to all characters who have been modified.

    This trait was created to have a distinction between characters from Khan's faction: the Augments, and other characters having also undergone some enhancements. As such characters from the Augment faction will have both the Augment trait and the Engineered trait.

    I hope you don’t mind if I take liberty and choose a different title, [engineered] is too close to [engineer] a trait DB seems on the fence about including in the game. I’ll list it as [bionic].

    cyjv2xl5puku.jpeg

    This way it can classify all [Augments], all genetically enhanced peoples, and all cybernetically enhanced peoples such as the soon-to-come Lt. Airiam.

    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like DB saw our feedback on augment vs genetically engineered. Glad they are setting it straight. Unfortunately it has a(n) [unintended?] side effect on the Eugenics War collection.
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  • This change has ruined my chances of competing the Augment collection. I had 9 immortal and RAF Bashir at 3/4 level 100. Kept thinking I could wait what could go wrong? Well. This. Very annoyed at the change.
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