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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think [Engineered] here refers to the entirety of the person, not just parts of them.
    Bashir is wholly genetically engineered/altered, Sarina is too. Seven is arguable, but since that's simply the nature of the Borg as is, I am not so sure she nor Borgs in general need the [engineered] trait. Icheb, on the other hand, was genetically engineered before he became Borg, he was specifically wholly genetically altered to be a weapon against the Borg. So Icheb is actually a great example of how Borg and engineered can coincide, but that [Borg] does not presuppose [engineered], most Borg aren't of Icheb's genetically engineered history nor similar to it.

    Where as Geordi just has his cybernetic eyes, Picard his artificial heart, Nog his artificial leg. That's not enough to be [engineered] I don't think.

    And yes, DB has creates slippery slope traits before, but by all means that does not mean we should add more.
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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    I would argue that Geordi when he wears a visor it's a device to assist him in sight (although there is still a slight enhancement in that he can see things that the human eye cannot, however it's still an external device in which I dare say any human could be "hooked up to" if needs be), without it he is still blind.

    Future Geordi with no visor, well I can't quite remember, but I believe there was never any indication of having enhancements that the visor has or more so. So again I would argue that it is just fulfilling a normal bodily function.

    Picard's artificial heart again is assistive there is no indication that he has been "enhanced" it just replaces a function a soft tissue organ would do.

    I agree that Borg's probably should have engineered, their quest for perfection and their obsessions with enhancements kind of leads to that.
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  • I see worms everywhere! :D

    If we pick nits at this enough, we could add hundreds of useless traits and sub-traits.

    The engineered vs. augment was an absolutely needed separation. We do need some discussions to figure out who goes where within those parameters. I think Minuet should be "Engineered", because she was a computer generated hologram "engineered" to be a highly advanced computer A.I. to fool everyone for a distraction. Again nitpicking, and arguable.

    Other things we have been discussing, like adding race traits to holograms, I think are necessary to the game, but perhaps not as necessary to our way of thinking.

    Deanna Troi as a Telepath comes to mind, since there are a LOT of telepath slots that pop up in the Voyages, and NONE that have Empath on them (that I have seen). We don't necessarily think of her as a telepath, even though she has demonstrated telepathic abilities & was called telepathic in the show, if only maybe twice.

    If someone is "costumed" as a Vulcan, they should get the Vulcan trait, and that helps us in the GAME, even if it messes with our sense of logic. All Burnhams with the Vulcan trait? Heck NO – she is human! Graduate & Prospect Burnham? Heck Yeah! She was living on Vulcan at the time. She is no less a Vulcan in this sense than "Romulan Picard" who just has fake pointy ears and a robe.

    I am picky by nature, so a lot of the weird & random trait stuff bugs me, but there are a lot of fixes we need for the sake of the game.
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  • I suppose I just like the idea of at the very least giving all the Borg the Engineered trait, as someone pointed out before this post. I still like the idea of Cyborg, and I like adding more and more traits, but I suppose we should remain reasonable about it all. Again though, the have deliberately enhanced themselves so I think Engineered applies, at least. Plus, it always seems to me that Borg characters, Locutus and Seven being exceptions, often have very few traits to begin with. Let’s give them another!
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Crew -- Weyoun Clone 6
    Traits to add: Hero, Inspiring, Desperate, Maverick, Resourceful

    This idea from a post by @·§ë· For the Many on the discussion of the event. I think it's spot on:
    Weyoun Clone 6 is missing a few traits: Hero, Inspiring, Desperate, Maverick, Resourceful

    Absent rightful legendary status, at least give the hero his traits. ;)
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  • Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    If Captain Spock is the Undiscovered Country iteration, maybe add Investigator and Interrogator...? Most of Star Trek VI is a mystery tracking down the traitor. Spock even quotes Sherlock Holmes at the beginning of the manhunt.

    And certainly Brutal...

    p2ixzg37l44y.png

    Even toss in Jury Rigger?

    pvfxix023v7f.png

    And Crafty for being such a "cunning little Vulcan."

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  • TaskerTasker ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Every Defiant-class ship in the game has the Fighter trait except 5* ISS Defiant. Is this due to all ISS ships getting a bump up in grade over their Federation counterparts— where NX is Explorer, Avenger is Battlecruiser, etc?
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tasker wrote: »
    Every Defiant-class ship in the game has the Fighter trait except 5* ISS Defiant. Is this due to all ISS ships getting a bump up in grade over their Federation counterparts— where NX is Explorer, Avenger is Battlecruiser, etc?

    It's inexplicable. Obviously the ISS Defiant is just as much a Fighter as every other Defiant-class ship. That trait needs to be added/changed.
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  • edited November 2018
    Then does Picard get that trait because of his artificial heart? This seems like a slippery slope of a trait.


    I'd like to see another version of Picard with the Augment trait, with a grown, real heart. Only, not a villain, and all-around Augmented physically and mentally. I also like the Borg having the engineering skill; engineering seems to be part of what they do - I'm not sure I'd call it anything else. Mechanical Implant might be what you are looking for? Not sure.

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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi all,

    I will get to updating the traits soon enough. Might be a few more days yet.
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  • Just a thought to revisit the "pilot" trait, as the coming Mega says we need all our Pilot crew!
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  • All Wesley should be pilots cause they either sit at the helm of Enterprise or were part of Nova squad.


    The command hologram version of the EMH should also get pilot cause he piloted Voyager and Prometheus whenever he was command hologram.
  • Also neelix flew his own ship, he should have pilot too.
  • vin28 wrote: »
    All Wesley should be pilots cause they either sit at the helm of Enterprise or were part of Nova squad.


    The command hologram version of the EMH should also get pilot cause he piloted Voyager and Prometheus whenever he was command hologram.

    Commanding a ship does not make you a pilot, since you are just assigning those tasks to the actual person piloting the starship.

    As for EMH on the Prometheus, they were guessing by pushing buttons, therefore I call it luck, rather than a 'skill'.
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    My weigh-in:
    [Pilot]
    -Neelix, yes probably should have it.
    -Wesley, maybe only Cadet Wesley, Lieutenant Wesley, and Formal Wesley should have it.
    -EMH, no, doesn’t deserve it.
    -Pinafore Data, yes, that role is entirely with him in the role of a pilot.

    Captain Spock
    -[investigator], [interrogator], [crafty] those are all acceptable.
    -[jury rigger] is a bit of a stretch for just one measly scene.
    -[brutal] is also a stretch, that trait to me is more of a personality defining trait, not so much a one scene trait. Now if the art was Spock mind-melding Valeris then you would have a better argument for the trait.

    Traits for body modifications/prosthetics
    -Sorry, but I am going to say no on this. Unless such aspects of characters become necessary to define them compared to another trait (e.g. the need to differentiate between who are [prisoner]s and who are [hostage]s) or truly end up setting them apart (e.g. a race or faction trait), then it isn’t our place to suggest offering new, somewhat tedious traits.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    My weigh-in:
    [Pilot]
    -Neelix, yes probably should have it.
    -Wesley, maybe only Cadet Wesley, Lieutenant Wesley, and Formal Wesley should have it.
    -EMH, no, doesn’t deserve it.
    -Pinafore Data, yes, that role is entirely with him in the role of a pilot.

    Captain Spock
    -[investigator], [interrogator], [crafty] those are all acceptable.
    -[jury rigger] is a bit of a stretch for just one measly scene.
    -[brutal] is also a stretch, that trait to me is more of a personality defining trait, not so much a one scene trait. Now if the art was Spock mind-melding Valeris then you would have a better argument for the trait.

    Traits for body modifications/prosthetics
    -Sorry, but I am going to say no on this. Unless such aspects of characters become necessary to define them compared to another trait (e.g. the need to differentiate between who are [prisoner]s and who are [hostage]s) or truly end up setting them apart (e.g. a race or faction trait), then it isn’t our place to suggest offering new, somewhat tedious traits.

    I agree with you on everything above, with one possible exception. There's an argument that as the helmsman of the Enterprise-D, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher and Ensign Wesley Crusher should also get "pilot". All the other regular helmsmen, except Season 1 Geordi, have the trait in the game:
    • Sulu - consistently a pilot, but we also learn in ST:IV that Sulu has always been into piloting (remember his comments about the Huey helicopter)
    • Paris - consistently a pilot, but again, this seems to be a trait beyond just helming the ship. If I'm remembering right, Janeway got him out of that New Zealand penal facility specifically because of his piloting skills. She needed a good pilot to get Voyager through the Badlands.
    • Geordi - not a pilot, even 2* Geordi La Forge -- who helmed the Enterprise in Season 1 -- does not have the trait. (He's also listed as a cyberneticist, though he exhibits no such skill in the first season.) This is curious since, in the episodes with Captain Jellico, we learn that Geordi is a good pilot, but not as good as Riker (when Jellico needs someone to lay the mines on the hulls of the Cardassian ships hiding in a nebula).
    • Mayweather - consistently a pilot. I don't recall if there's ever any discussion of his unique piloting skills/background in the show, or if this is just a factor of him helming the NX-01.
    • Missing from this list: who helmed the Defiant and the Discovery? I'm not even sure.
    .
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    My weigh-in:
    [Pilot]
    -Neelix, yes probably should have it.
    -Wesley, maybe only Cadet Wesley, Lieutenant Wesley, and Formal Wesley should have it.
    -EMH, no, doesn’t deserve it.
    -Pinafore Data, yes, that role is entirely with him in the role of a pilot.

    Captain Spock
    -[investigator], [interrogator], [crafty] those are all acceptable.
    -[jury rigger] is a bit of a stretch for just one measly scene.
    -[brutal] is also a stretch, that trait to me is more of a personality defining trait, not so much a one scene trait. Now if the art was Spock mind-melding Valeris then you would have a better argument for the trait.

    Traits for body modifications/prosthetics
    -Sorry, but I am going to say no on this. Unless such aspects of characters become necessary to define them compared to another trait (e.g. the need to differentiate between who are [prisoner]s and who are [hostage]s) or truly end up setting them apart (e.g. a race or faction trait), then it isn’t our place to suggest offering new, somewhat tedious traits.

    I agree with you on everything above, with one possible exception. There's an argument that as the helmsman of the Enterprise-D, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher and Ensign Wesley Crusher should also get "pilot". All the other regular helmsmen, except Season 1 Geordi, have the trait in the game:
    • Sulu - consistently a pilot, but we also learn in ST:IV that Sulu has always been into piloting (remember his comments about the Huey helicopter)
    • Paris - consistently a pilot, but again, this seems to be a trait beyond just helming the ship. If I'm remembering right, Janeway got him out of that New Zealand penal facility specifically because of his piloting skills. She needed a good pilot to get Voyager through the Badlands.
    • Geordi - not a pilot, even 2* Geordi La Forge -- who helmed the Enterprise in Season 1 -- does not have the trait. (He's also listed as a cyberneticist, though he exhibits no **tsk tsk** skill in the first season.) This is curious since, in the episodes with Captain Jellico, we learn that Geordi is a good pilot, but not as good as Riker (when Jellico needs someone to lay the mines on the hulls of the Cardassian ships hiding in a nebula).
    • Mayweather - consistently a pilot. I don't recall if there's ever any discussion of his unique piloting skills/background in the show, or if this is just a factor of him helming the NX-01.
    • Missing from this list: who helmed the Defiant and the Discovery? I'm not even sure.
    .

    Well, I thought 1st Season Geordi lacked the pilot trait, but I see now in this week's event that he has it. Not sure if DB just changed it, or if it was wrong on the Wiki. Either way, this strengthens the argument for every version of Wesley that helmed the Enterprise-D or later to have the pilot trait.
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  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    My weigh-in:
    [Pilot]
    -Neelix, yes probably should have it.
    -Wesley, maybe only Cadet Wesley, Lieutenant Wesley, and Formal Wesley should have it.
    -EMH, no, doesn’t deserve it.
    -Pinafore Data, yes, that role is entirely with him in the role of a pilot.

    Captain Spock
    -[investigator], [interrogator], [crafty] those are all acceptable.
    -[jury rigger] is a bit of a stretch for just one measly scene.
    -[brutal] is also a stretch, that trait to me is more of a personality defining trait, not so much a one scene trait. Now if the art was Spock mind-melding Valeris then you would have a better argument for the trait.

    Traits for body modifications/prosthetics
    -Sorry, but I am going to say no on this. Unless such aspects of characters become necessary to define them compared to another trait (e.g. the need to differentiate between who are [prisoner]s and who are [hostage]s) or truly end up setting them apart (e.g. a race or faction trait), then it isn’t our place to suggest offering new, somewhat tedious traits.

    I agree with you on everything above, with one possible exception. There's an argument that as the helmsman of the Enterprise-D, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher and Ensign Wesley Crusher should also get "pilot". All the other regular helmsmen, except Season 1 Geordi, have the trait in the game:
    • Sulu - consistently a pilot, but we also learn in ST:IV that Sulu has always been into piloting (remember his comments about the Huey helicopter)
    • Paris - consistently a pilot, but again, this seems to be a trait beyond just helming the ship. If I'm remembering right, Janeway got him out of that New Zealand penal facility specifically because of his piloting skills. She needed a good pilot to get Voyager through the Badlands.
    • Geordi - not a pilot, even 2* Geordi La Forge -- who helmed the Enterprise in Season 1 -- does not have the trait. (He's also listed as a cyberneticist, though he exhibits no **tsk tsk** skill in the first season.) This is curious since, in the episodes with Captain Jellico, we learn that Geordi is a good pilot, but not as good as Riker (when Jellico needs someone to lay the mines on the hulls of the Cardassian ships hiding in a nebula).
    • Mayweather - consistently a pilot. I don't recall if there's ever any discussion of his unique piloting skills/background in the show, or if this is just a factor of him helming the NX-01.
    • Missing from this list: who helmed the Defiant and the Discovery? I'm not even sure.
    .

    If memory serves, I think Jadzia did the bulk of the piloting of the Defiant before her demise. After that, Nog was the primary pilot although none of the four Nog variants would really warrant a Pilot trait (Captain Nog wasn’t piloting anything by that point, Cadet and Teenager Nog are from when Jadzia was still alive, and Tuxedo Nog was piloting nothing more complicated than a holographic BarcaLounger).
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Does being a 'helmsman' automatically make you pilot? There could be some serious debate on that. There is some crossover training I would imagine, but they are different kinds of duties involved with each.

    I am an actual (airplane) pilot, and have 2 separate ratings, but if you put me in an Airbus 380 and said "Go for it", yeaaahhh––NOT!

    If you put this in nautical terms (like a Starship would be), being a "pilot" of a small cruiser and being a helmsman of a Battelship or Aircraft Carrier – very different things! I can easily see a navigator or engineer transferring to helmsman with some minimal crossover training, but taking a general 'pilot' training them up to helmsman would be considerably more difficult.
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  • Zann Calcore (ISA)Zann Calcore (ISA) ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Does being a 'helmsman' automatically make you pilot? There could be some serious debate on that. There is some crossover training I would imagine, but they are different kinds of duties involved with each.

    I am an actual (airplane) pilot, and have 2 separate ratings, but if you put me in an Airbus 380 and said "Go for it", yeaaahhh––NOT!

    If you put this in nautical terms (like a Starship would be), being a "pilot" of a small cruiser and being a helmsman of a Battelship or Aircraft Carrier – very different things! I can easily see a navigator or engineer transferring to helmsman with some minimal crossover training, but taking a general 'pilot' training them up to helmsman would be considerably more difficult.

    From what I’ve gathered over the years watching all these shows, especially TNG, DS9, and Voyager, but also Enterprise, I’d say that it seems like they teach them first in small simulators, then in shuttles and smaller craft, then again in simulators, though larger ship ones, and finally onto actual starships. This may not be the case but it has always struck me as such.

    Also, don’t know if this helps but remember that some key watchwords of Starfleet have always been “redundancy”, “automation”, “standardization”, and “cross field training”. Just sayin’.
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    She is Queen of the Spider People after all 🕷

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  • Okay, now Minuet needs to have "pilot" trait. LOL

    d90b5okea0d7.png
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, now Minuet needs to have "pilot" trait. LOL

    d90b5okea0d7.png

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    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
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  • Odo MarmarosaOdo Marmarosa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Warship EMA needs hologram trait. The aliens in "Living Witness" thought he was an android instead of a hologram, but the Warship simulation was a holoprogram, and the other Warship Voyager characters have the hologram trait
  • Warship EMA needs hologram trait. The aliens in "Living Witness" thought he was an android instead of a hologram, but the Warship simulation was a holoprogram, and the other Warship Voyager characters have the hologram trait

    I was just about to say the same thing. How in the world did they manage to mess this up? I mean, they’ve done a handful of other “Warship” crew already and they ALL have the Hologram trait as they should, but no, when it finally comes to the coolest one that I’ve been waiting and waiting for, they screw it up. He should have Hologram AND Android, because he’s a holographic recreation of an android, just like Chakotay and Janeway both have Hologram AND Human and Tuvok has Hologram AND Vulcan!
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hologram for Warship EMA has been added to the list.
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • Warship EMA needs hologram trait. The aliens in "Living Witness" thought he was an android instead of a hologram, but the Warship simulation was a holoprogram, and the other Warship Voyager characters have the hologram trait

    Exactly!
    I looked this up also. In that episode, all the Voyager crew were depicted as evil in a recounting of historical storytelling in a 'holonovel'. Remember the historian's surprise to find out the doc was actually a hologram?
    Should make it so by adding hologram trait just like the rest of that episode's crew!
  • Hologram for Warship EMA has been added to the list.

    Thx for your hard work in keeping thread up.😎
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