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Trait Audit Thread (new)

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  • As I mentioned in another thread, and as discussed above regarding costumes, both Disguised Tuvok and Boothby Replicant should have the Human trait.
  • Zann Calcore (ISA)Zann Calcore (ISA) ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Upon quick review
    Temporal kess is also telekinetic
    And dr noah should be removed from do no harm collection.

    Noah Hippocrates is a special case that has to do with a bunch of changes that occurred to some very specific traits, namely what used to be Doctor and is now Physician. The short of it is that in order to not “cheat” players of a Collection piece, he was left in the Do No Harm Collection. Removing him from that would certainly piss off a lot of people that haven’t yet had the chance to use him to fill that position, so no, sorry, he should stay in the Collection.

    You are definitely right about Temporal Kes.
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  • IkritIkrit ✭✭✭
    Looking at the new 5* bartender Tuvok, I think a new trait should be created. "French Resistance".
    He, Katrine, Neelix & De Neuf, should have as well since they were the resistance for the town of 'Saint Claire' in the holoprogram in episode "The Killing Game"

    Or they could just make a slightly more generic trait to encompass characters from those episodes as well as any “inspired” by them. Just using Resistance as a trait would likely work in my opinion. That way they could add it to the Americans like GI Chakotay and Combat Medic Paris as well.

    Speaking of the "Killing Game" characters, Klingon Janeway is the only one who doesn't have Starfleet and Federation. While one could argue that the other crew from the episode are from after they were freed from the brainwashing, Resistance Neelix still has the Chef trait, a Neelix character trait that he would have lost while brainwashed (he was freed as a klingon, which he became after being "killed" in the Sainte Claire program). Unfortunately, none of the other crew have traits that would definitively place them as brainwashed or not (Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Mademoiselle de Neuf would have the Saboteur trait either way, for example).

    All of the crew from that episode should get the Prisoner trait, regardless if they are the brainwashed versions or not.
  • Shy KhanShy Khan ✭✭✭✭✭
    This conversation is happening in current event thread, but I'll suggest here as well that Kazon Seska should have her Bajoran trait restored.

    The Obsidian Order altered Seska at the genetic level to Bajoran, or at least masked her life signs to defeat basic medical scans. Indeed, in the episode she is discovered (Voy: State of Flux, 1x10), the Doctor actually says, "It appears Seska has been genetically altered..."

    Her change back to a Cardassian appearance when she defected to the Kazon would likely have been only cosmetic, as they lack the necessary medical technology to reverse the process at the genetic level. Seska herself describes Kazon medicine as rudimentary and "primitive" (Voy: Basics, Pt II, 3x1).
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  • Zann Calcore (ISA)Zann Calcore (ISA) ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Shy Khan wrote: »
    This conversation is happening in current event thread, but I'll suggest here as well that Kazon Seska should have her Bajoran trait restored.

    The Obsidian Order altered Seska at the genetic level to Bajoran, or at least masked her life signs to defeat basic medical scans. Indeed, in the episode she is discovered (Voy: State of Flux, 1x10), the Doctor actually says, "It appears Seska has been genetically altered..."

    Her change back to a Cardassian appearance when she defected to the Kazon would likely have been only cosmetic, as they lack the necessary medical technology to reverse the process at the genetic level. Seska herself describes Kazon medicine as rudimentary and "primitive" (Voy: Basics, Pt II, 3x1).

    I agree. I’ve no idea why they suddenly decided to remove a relatively benign trait from a somewhat obscure purple character RIGHT BEFORE an event where she would have actually possibly been useful. Honestly, the timing of it makes me think they did it out of pure spite. Anyhow, I agree though, because you’re right; she was altered so well, on such a deeply genetic level that she was basically permanently made into a half-Bajoran, half-Cardassian. Basically, she’s still part Bajoran, even in those episodes where she’s allied herself with the Kazon and started looking slightly more Cardassian. You’ll notice if you go back and watch those, she always seems to look more like a B-C mix rather than either way completely, a lot like Tora Ziyal.

    P.S. I’m not sure, but I could swear that at one point, back when they first discover what Seska really is, that the Doctor mentions that even Voyager didn’t have the necessary facilities to transform her back into a full Cardassian.
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, I've updated most suggestions. Some I think need more convincing/solid reasoning.
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  • Any plans for a level 100? I think it is about time this should get some serious consideration.Many players have reached level 99 and some have moved on from this game because of this.Also rewards for this costly achievement should be appropriate!
    Make It So!!
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    avenger wrote: »
    Any plans for a level 100? I think it is about time this should get some serious consideration.Many players have reached level 99 and some have moved on from this game because of this.Also rewards for this costly achievement should be appropriate!
    Make It So!!

    This isn't related to character/ship traits though...
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  • Sorry
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ariam reveled on the last Discovery that she is [self-proclaimed] "Cybernetically Augmented, thank you very much!" I would think she would need some genetic manipulation for her cybernetic implants to function correctly (thus the "augment" trait as defined by DB works here), so I would argue her "engineered" status be changed to "Cybernetic Augment" to fit better.
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  • Ariam reveled on the last Discovery that she is [self-proclaimed] "Cybernetically Augmented, thank you very much!" I would think she would need some genetic manipulation for her cybernetic implants to function correctly (thus the "augment" trait as defined by DB works here), so I would argue her "engineered" status be changed to "Cybernetic Augment" to fit better.

    If they were to differentiate like that, which may or may not be a good idea, then they’d have to give all Borg that trait as well. Of course, you could also argue that as it stands, all the Borg should have the Engineered trait. Probably best to keep it slimmed down to one trait, though that idea seems to have escaped them in their revision of Linguist Hoshi.

    For those unaware, Teacher Hoshi Sato now has the Communicator trait AND a brand new one called Linguist. I’d argue that that’s redundant and therefore not necessary. What do you all think?
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ariam reveled on the last Discovery that she is [self-proclaimed] "Cybernetically Augmented, thank you very much!" I would think she would need some genetic manipulation for her cybernetic implants to function correctly (thus the "augment" trait as defined by DB works here), so I would argue her "engineered" status be changed to "Cybernetic Augment" to fit better.

    If they were to differentiate like that, which may or may not be a good idea, then they’d have to give all Borg that trait as well. Of course, you could also argue that as it stands, all the Borg should have the Engineered trait. Probably best to keep it slimmed down to one trait, though that idea seems to have escaped them in their revision of Linguist Hoshi.

    For those unaware, Teacher Hoshi Sato now has the Communicator trait AND a brand new one called Linguist. I’d argue that that’s redundant and therefore not necessary. What do you all think?

    I'm actually a linguist so I may be biased, but I think it is good to differentiate Sato's two traits. Communicator to me is a role, not necessarily your profession. Linguist is her profession, it just means she studies languages as that profession, it does not necessarily mean she speaks tons and communicates in them. Of course, she actually does do that, but trust that there are tons of people in my field who are monolingual, or they speak many languages but don't focus on the communication aspect of them, instead focusing on the structural aspect or the mental perception aspect.

    To me, if we took away Sato's linguist trait just because she has the communicator trait, it'd be akin to taking away Crusher's physician one just because she has the caregiver trait. Sure caregiver and physician often go hand-in-hand, and communicator and linguist often do too, but that does not mean they are one and the same nor make the other redundant. Also, Sato doesn't just now have the linguist trait, she had it ever since that card even debuted. It's not as if DB put her out there, then went back and revised that trait onto her.

    All of that said, I don't think we need to split hairs with Airiam. Engineered is vague in that it is not narrowed down to just genetic engineering, it could also easily be cybernetic engineering. Whether it should apply to Borg or not, is a question for the ages. Some argue no because engineered implies from birth, but then if that's the case Bashir wouldn't have it as he got engineered as a child. One could argue I suppose that being Borg presupposes engineered status since all Borg are engineered cybernetically. I'm still undecided, but I think I'm leaning more toward Borg shouldn't receive it since I personally do presuppose engineeredness with Borgness.
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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just come across two variants of Riker who don't have the Maverick Trait:
    Mintakan Riker and First Officer Riker

    Can't see a reason they shouldn't have this Trait.
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just come across two variants of Riker who don't have the Maverick Trait:
    Mintakan Riker and First Officer Riker

    Can't see a reason they shouldn't have this Trait.

    I can't remember the Mintakan episode very well. Maybe Riker was so by-the-book that Maverick no longer applied to him in that context? So I'm not sure there.

    But on FO Riker, I can't think of any reason he wouldn't be a Maverick there. In Insurrection (where he wore that uniform), he piloted by joystick which was pretty Maverick-y.
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  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with you completely @Lady Gaghgagh – Communicator & Linguist are completely separate. You can be a great communicator, but how many languages can you communicate in?

    Oh, the Borg... we could open so many cans of worms on that! Engineered? Augmented? Cybernetically Engineered AND Augmented? Maybe we just leave them all "Borgified" and we all know that explains what they are, and no such nuances of other traits needed for the game.
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  • Ariam reveled on the last Discovery that she is [self-proclaimed] "Cybernetically Augmented, thank you very much!" I would think she would need some genetic manipulation for her cybernetic implants to function correctly (thus the "augment" trait as defined by DB works here), so I would argue her "engineered" status be changed to "Cybernetic Augment" to fit better.

    If they were to differentiate like that, which may or may not be a good idea, then they’d have to give all Borg that trait as well. Of course, you could also argue that as it stands, all the Borg should have the Engineered trait. Probably best to keep it slimmed down to one trait, though that idea seems to have escaped them in their revision of Linguist Hoshi.

    For those unaware, Teacher Hoshi Sato now has the Communicator trait AND a brand new one called Linguist. I’d argue that that’s redundant and therefore not necessary. What do you all think?

    I'm actually a linguist so I may be biased, but I think it is good to differentiate Sato's two traits. Communicator to me is a role, not necessarily your profession. Linguist is her profession, it just means she studies languages as that profession, it does not necessarily mean she speaks tons and communicates in them. Of course, she actually does do that, but trust that there are tons of people in my field who are monolingual, or they speak many languages but don't focus on the communication aspect of them, instead focusing on the structural aspect or the mental perception aspect.

    To me, if we took away Sato's linguist trait just because she has the communicator trait, it'd be akin to taking away Crusher's physician one just because she has the caregiver trait. Sure caregiver and physician often go hand-in-hand, and communicator and linguist often do too, but that does not mean they are one and the same nor make the other redundant. Also, Sato doesn't just now have the linguist trait, she had it ever since that card even debuted. It's not as if DB put her out there, then went back and revised that trait onto her.

    All of that said, I don't think we need to split hairs with Airiam. Engineered is vague in that it is not narrowed down to just genetic engineering, it could also easily be cybernetic engineering. Whether it should apply to Borg or not, is a question for the ages. Some argue no because engineered implies from birth, but then if that's the case Bashir wouldn't have it as he got engineered as a child. One could argue I suppose that being Borg presupposes engineered status since all Borg are engineered cybernetically. I'm still undecided, but I think I'm leaning more toward Borg shouldn't receive it since I personally do presuppose engineeredness with Borgness.

    With all due respect to you and Hoshi, I think within the context of this game, that’s another case of splitting hairs; that is, adding too many traits that are all just slightly different variations of the same thing. My overall point with Hoshi was that all her previous and other versions just have the Communicator trait, even though timeline-wise “Professor Sato” is the very first to ever make an appearance. I mean, she didn’t stop being a linguist just because she joined Archer on the Enterprise.

    Plus I’d also say that there are other characters that have filled that role yet are also solely recognized as a Communicator and not also a Linguist. Uhura is the perfect example as she too is a Linguist in her profession. Oddly, this reminds me of the whole Engineered, Augments, Cybernetically Enhanced argument we’re having in this very same thread. It’s great to use different traits to represent distinct differences but sometimes, especially within the confines of a mobile game, it’s just easier to use one vague word instead of 3 or 4 different but slightly more accurate ones.

    Anyhow, just managed to pull a Usurper Lorca, somehow, and I definitely think he should have Tactician and possibly also Desperate. What do you all think?
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with you completely @Lady Gaghgagh – Communicator & Linguist are completely separate. You can be a great communicator, but how many languages can you communicate in?

    Oh, the Borg... we could open so many cans of worms on that! Engineered? Augmented? Cybernetically Engineered AND Augmented? Maybe we just leave them all "Borgified" and we all know that explains what they are, and no such nuances of other traits needed for the game.

    New trait: Borg-eoisie :p
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ariam reveled on the last Discovery that she is [self-proclaimed] "Cybernetically Augmented, thank you very much!" I would think she would need some genetic manipulation for her cybernetic implants to function correctly (thus the "augment" trait as defined by DB works here), so I would argue her "engineered" status be changed to "Cybernetic Augment" to fit better.

    If they were to differentiate like that, which may or may not be a good idea, then they’d have to give all Borg that trait as well. Of course, you could also argue that as it stands, all the Borg should have the Engineered trait. Probably best to keep it slimmed down to one trait, though that idea seems to have escaped them in their revision of Linguist Hoshi.

    For those unaware, Teacher Hoshi Sato now has the Communicator trait AND a brand new one called Linguist. I’d argue that that’s redundant and therefore not necessary. What do you all think?

    I'm actually a linguist so I may be biased, but I think it is good to differentiate Sato's two traits. Communicator to me is a role, not necessarily your profession. Linguist is her profession, it just means she studies languages as that profession, it does not necessarily mean she speaks tons and communicates in them. Of course, she actually does do that, but trust that there are tons of people in my field who are monolingual, or they speak many languages but don't focus on the communication aspect of them, instead focusing on the structural aspect or the mental perception aspect.

    To me, if we took away Sato's linguist trait just because she has the communicator trait, it'd be akin to taking away Crusher's physician one just because she has the caregiver trait. Sure caregiver and physician often go hand-in-hand, and communicator and linguist often do too, but that does not mean they are one and the same nor make the other redundant. Also, Sato doesn't just now have the linguist trait, she had it ever since that card even debuted. It's not as if DB put her out there, then went back and revised that trait onto her.

    All of that said, I don't think we need to split hairs with Airiam. Engineered is vague in that it is not narrowed down to just genetic engineering, it could also easily be cybernetic engineering. Whether it should apply to Borg or not, is a question for the ages. Some argue no because engineered implies from birth, but then if that's the case Bashir wouldn't have it as he got engineered as a child. One could argue I suppose that being Borg presupposes engineered status since all Borg are engineered cybernetically. I'm still undecided, but I think I'm leaning more toward Borg shouldn't receive it since I personally do presuppose engineeredness with Borgness.

    With all due respect to you and Hoshi, I think within the context of this game, that’s another case of splitting hairs; that is, adding too many traits that are all just slightly different variations of the same thing. My overall point with Hoshi was that all her previous and other versions just have the Communicator trait, even though timeline-wise “Professor Sato” is the very first to ever make an appearance. I mean, she didn’t stop being a linguist just because she joined Archer on the Enterprise.

    Plus I’d also say that there are other characters that have filled that role yet are also solely recognized as a Communicator and not also a Linguist. Uhura is the perfect example as she too is a Linguist in her profession. Oddly, this reminds me of the whole Engineered, Augments, Cybernetically Enhanced argument we’re having in this very same thread. It’s great to use different traits to represent distinct differences but sometimes, especially within the confines of a mobile game, it’s just easier to use one vague word instead of 3 or 4 different but slightly more accurate ones.

    Anyhow, just managed to pull a Usurper Lorca, somehow, and I definitely think he should have Tactician and possibly also Desperate. What do you all think?

    I actually believe all variants of Hoshi should have linguist as well, except maybe Mirror. And Uhura should also have it, but I thought they never fully established her as a linguist in the series? I don't recall hearing linguist and Uhura being brought up together until JJTrek. I am still not opposed to her having the trait, but can anyone weigh in who might know if in series canon she was designated a linguist?

    I haven't seen past the first half of Season 1 on DIS, so I will let others put their pennies in before I add anything. Until then, I'll go add linguist for Sato variants needing the trait.
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  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    First, having JUST watched "The Enemy Within" again (where the new Evil Kirk came from), he should definitely have the "desperate" trait. Most of the episode he is doing things to survive, and yells over and over at the "I just want to live..." If that's not desperate, I don't know what is!
    I might also ask to include "scoundrel", for two reasons: he tries to seduce then rape Yeoman Rand, and he cunningly talks to "good" Kirk, catching him off-guard and knocking him out on the sickbay floor to try to take control as Captain.

    Usurper Lorca. Desperate? Definitely not. Every conversation, every movement for months is carefully planned to get back to the alternate universe and take out Emperor Georgiou. Never once does he appear out of control. Scoundrel, cunning (?), tactician, and maybe duelist? (Brilliant fight sequence w/EG)

    Uhura TOS: think about ST:V or VI when she was looking up Klingon translations in an actual book trying to talk their way passed a Klingon patrol (even though she was operating a Klingon console on a Bird of Prey in ST:IV :D ). That being said, she also speaks Swahili fluently, but she was constantly using the Universal Translator for every other species they encounter. So...Linguist = no.
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  • Royalty for Emperor Georgiou?
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  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Royalty for Emperor Georgiou?

    The royalty trait is under debate. Does it apply to bloodline or not? Is Emperor merely a title in the Mirror Universe or is it lineage/heritage based? Queen Guinevere Kira makes sense to have royalty because Queen Guinevere who Kira is playing/embodying the role of, was royalty. Georgiou is hard to say, to our knowledge she isn't actually royal bloodline, so it seems emperor may just be a title and not a royal marker. But I'd love to hear more feedback on this. I admit I haven't seen past a little of the first half of season one of Discovery so I'm not the most well-suited for the discussion.
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    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    Royalty for Emperor Georgiou?

    The royalty trait is under debate. Does it apply to bloodline or not? Is Emperor merely a title in the Mirror Universe or is it lineage/heritage based? Queen Guinevere Kira makes sense to have royalty because Queen Guinevere who Kira is playing/embodying the role of, was royalty. Georgiou is hard to say, to our knowledge she isn't actually royal bloodline, so it seems emperor may just be a title and not a royal marker. But I'd love to hear more feedback on this. I admit I haven't seen past a little of the first half of season one of Discovery so I'm not the most well-suited for the discussion.

    Ah but this is the question royalty of what and where? looking back in history; war of the roses springs to mind or indeed 1066 (there are countless earlier examples as well), Royalty is just another term for the same thing it is whoever is the victor and decrees themselves as royalty.

    Georgiou's preferred title is Emperor but essentially that makes them a Terran Monarch, given the differing view of Georgiou - is that emperor or empress? (I note empress has been put as a trait) - perhaps monarch should include portrayal and actual of both royalty and the imperial variant thereof.
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  • Royalty for Emperor Georgiou?

    The royalty trait is under debate. Does it apply to bloodline or not? Is Emperor merely a title in the Mirror Universe or is it lineage/heritage based? Queen Guinevere Kira makes sense to have royalty because Queen Guinevere who Kira is playing/embodying the role of, was royalty. Georgiou is hard to say, to our knowledge she isn't actually royal bloodline, so it seems emperor may just be a title and not a royal marker. But I'd love to hear more feedback on this. I admit I haven't seen past a little of the first half of season one of Discovery so I'm not the most well-suited for the discussion.

    Ah but this is the question royalty of what and where? looking back in history; war of the roses springs to mind or indeed 1066 (there are countless earlier examples as well), Royalty is just another term for the same thing it is whoever is the victor and decrees themselves as royalty.

    Georgiou's preferred title is Emperor but essentially that makes them a Terran Monarch, given the differing view of Georgiou - is that emperor or empress? (I note empress has been put as a trait) - perhaps monarch should include portrayal and actual of both royalty and the imperial variant thereof.

    +1
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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    Warship Chakotay, I believe should have the interrogator trait, he was leading the interrogation of a Kyrian along with Kim and the EMA - who does have the trait.
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  • DwarminDwarmin ✭✭
    edited April 2019
    About the newest crew for the mega-event.

    My favorite semi-canon sources said Thrax was a secret follower of the 'Oralian Way', an as the Union outlawed Cardassian religion. It lead to him to such things as making an underground railroad to sneak dissidents out during the dominion war and possibly helping Odo as an informant.

    Can he get the Spiritual trait? Its important because I always loved him being fleshed out as more than a generic Cardassian thug with SEC/CMD/DIP. He was a good guy in a place where goodness wasn't going to be celebrated or rewarded, which is to me a good recipe for a true hero.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interrogator.

    Rura Penthe Commandant shouldn’t have the interrogator trait. He interrogated exactly no one in ST VI and, in fact, was about to tell Kirk the whole plot when Spock beamed up Kirk and McCoy. If anyone proved to be an interrogator, it was Rura Penthe Kirk!
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    Steamrunner Class
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Add "Musician" to all Picard variants except Ensign Picard.ag45dfy5h4rn.jpg

    Hmmm...are all extant Picard variants (other than Ensign Picard and Stargazer Picard) chronologically after The Inner Light? Only those who are should really get the trait.

    Which brings up another question: would we truly exclude Ensign Picard? Tapestry occurred after The Inner Light, so if Ensign Picard is really 2370s Picard in his own past rather than 2320s Picard in his own present (as is suggested by the artwork), then he would qualify for the Musician trait after all.
  • Lady GaghgaghLady Gaghgagh ✭✭✭✭✭
    Add "Musician" to all Picard variants except Ensign Picard.ag45dfy5h4rn.jpg

    Hmmm...are all extant Picard variants (other than Ensign Picard and Stargazer Picard) chronologically after The Inner Light? Only those who are should really get the trait.

    Which brings up another question: would we truly exclude Ensign Picard? Tapestry occurred after The Inner Light, so if Ensign Picard is really 2370s Picard in his own past rather than 2320s Picard in his own present (as is suggested by the artwork), then he would qualify for the Musician trait after all.

    This is why we don't try to wrap our heads around temporal mechanics :p
    Tapestry is a weird episode anyway, since none of it probably actually happened.
    Q magic is one of the great enigmas of the Star Trek universe, do things absolutely happen as Q magic shows or is some of it all hallucinatory experiences perceived by beings of lesser potential?
    Admiral of the Haus of GaghGagh, Starbase level 94, we are not accepting members at this time.
    Captain of the voyage vessels: Queen of Bashir, Landsknecht, and Sunspear, the first luxury starship cruiseliners.
    Amenities include wifi, fully-functioning holodecks, a full-service bar, 3 party decks, a Trill spa, and a business centre.
    Fun fact: The ships are propelled by bouncy castle technology.
  • AntasilAntasil ✭✭✭✭
    zhw0b2e4se0v.png

    Captive Bashir shows up in my Timelines Originals. Don't think he belongs there
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