Do Not Airlock Checklist Thread 3: Press Ctrl-F, type Spock

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  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    A quick update to 3.17 in the OP. The missing 'Prisoner' traits are now in along with the latest few crew.
    MuadDave wrote: »
    @Leshy The 3.20 beta seems to be working well for me with the new voyage options. Adjusting crew fuse levels appears to add/eliminate options appropriately.
    cmdrworf wrote: »
    @Leshy Same here. Things are looking good so far (and your updates are plenty frequent, once a month or so works good).
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I would also be interested in hearing whether the Voyage rankings make sense for you. You can see these on the 'Voyage Scores' tab, where the crew can be sorted from high to low by skill combination.

    The rankings in this version of the sheet will differ from the voyage rankings commonly used in other tools, but I think they mostly make sense.
  • Thanks for your hard work Leshy,
    I have a couple issues with version 3.16. The formulas in column B of the Data sheet are pointing to "!Settings" instead of "Settings," leading to REF errors.
    I had a look, and while I do see a slightly incorrect reference, it is actually to "$Settings", which does not lead to any errors as far as I can tell. I have fixed it now, but I am not able to replicate your error.
    Thank you for looking. Like you said, you fixed the references. Basically it was causing the "Best n* [Skill] Base to not calculate in the Stats sheet, which would leave them off the "Reason" column of the Crew sheet.
  • Leshy wrote: »
    Kafitrar wrote: »
    Thanks for your hard work Leshy,
    I have a couple issues with version 3.16. The formulas in column B of the Data sheet are pointing to "!Settings" instead of "Settings," leading to REF errors.
    I had a look, and while I do see a slightly incorrect reference, it is actually to "$Settings", which does not lead to any errors as far as I can tell. I have fixed it now, but I am not able to replicate your error.

    ANNOUNCEMENT
    Here is an announcement regarding a release... from the future! Well, not entirely. Just a bit.

    I have been working on improving the Voyage recommendations in the sheet. The current ones are fairly basic and do not always make sense in each case. In particular, it would be great if the sheet could give more weighting to more rare skill combinations – a CMD/DIP/MED crew should be more valuable than a CMD/DIP/SEC crew, given similar (or even very slightly worse) stats. It would also be helpful if the sheet could indicate crew with only one matching Voyage skill if they were an actual better option than crew with both matching skills, and if you could set some sort of minimum upgrade limit to avoid the sheet indicating very marginal upgrades.

    The good news is that version 3.20beta now does all of these things, and that the current default values seem to more or less work okay with my own roster after tinkering with them for a bit. The bad news is that I have no idea whether they also work well for all of your crews! The once again good news is that you can help and test:

    Do Not Airlock Checklist 3.20 beta 1 (2019-09-16)

    It is based on 3.16 and does not contain new crew or new fixes. It would be great to get some feedback on whether the new Voyage recommendations in this version make sense. From the changelog included in the sheet:
    Voyage recommendations are overhauled:

    The Settings screen now has multipliers for the tertiary skill of any crew (if they have any). This allows more rare tertiary skills (MED, SCI, ENG) to be valued higher than more common tertiary skills (DIP, MED, SEC). This should give preference to crew with more rare skill combinations when the primary/secondary stat totals are close.

    Voyage recommendations are now given for any skill combination of which a crew member has at least one skill (eg. a DIP/CMD/ENG crew would get a voyage score for DIP/MED voyages, but not for SCI/SEC). By default, there will be a lot more voyage recommendations listed, but they should dwindle as you fill in your crew.

    The Settings screen also has a multiplier for the primary or secondary skill of a crew when it is not the primary or secondary skill for a Voyage. This should be equal to or lower than the tertiary skill multiplier, as the primary and secondary skills of crew are generally much higher, and multipliers have far bigger impacts: an ENG/SCI/DIP crew would get a disproportionately high ranking for DIP/CMD voyages if the higher ENG/SCI multipliers were applied to the already high primary and secondary ENG/SCI values.

    The Voyage requirement now reads 'Voyage Crew' for Active crew, and 'Voyage Upgrade' for unobtained or Frozen crew. This should make the recommendation a bit clearer.

    The Settings screen now has a setting to determine how much higher a crew's Voyage score needs to be over your current weakest voyage crew for that skill combination (determined by the "No. of crew to keep" setting). Eg. if your 4th best DIP/ENG crew has a voyage score of 2600, the 'Voyage Upgrade' recommendation should only show on crew with a voyage score of at least 2650. This should avoid the sheet from recommending very minor upgrades.

    END OF ANNOUNCEMENT

    Not sure what changed there but I copied over the data for my vip0 account from the 3.16 sheet. Aleek-Oom who is a decent voyager for now had had been marked in the 3.20b sheet as space/freeze. Unchecked the active button and he got a unfreeze recommendation. So he's either freeze or unfreeze and nothing else :)
  • Hi,
    I airlocked Captain Janeway some days ago just to see now that she is a part of a fusion character.
    Oups !
    I was looking for zero one and see that he's a part of a fusion team too so I didn't follow the space out recommendation and checked keep.
    Maybe fusions should be taken in account ?
  • Mururoa wrote: »
    Hi,
    I airlocked Captain Janeway some days ago just to see now that she is a part of a fusion character.
    Oups !
    I was looking for zero one and see that he's a part of a fusion team too so I didn't follow the space out recommendation and checked keep.
    Maybe fusions should be taken in account ?

    Fusions are taken into account and fusable crew is displayed I think. But do yourself a favor and do not fuse the zero one / one zero because the result is even worse than the already bad 2 purples. Unless you're a completionists you'll get the absolutely worst legendary the game has to offer :)
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    Not sure what changed there but I copied over the data for my vip0 account from the 3.16 sheet. Aleek-Oom who is a decent voyager for now had had been marked in the 3.20b sheet as space/freeze. Unchecked the active button and he got a unfreeze recommendation. So he's either freeze or unfreeze and nothing else :)
    Are you able to share a copy? I can then have a look at what's happening.
    Mururoa wrote: »
    Hi,
    I airlocked Captain Janeway some days ago just to see now that she is a part of a fusion character.
    Oups !
    I was looking for zero one and see that he's a part of a fusion team too so I didn't follow the space out recommendation and checked keep.
    Maybe fusions should be taken in account ?
    As of 3.15, the sheet does take fusable crew into account. It should list 'Can be fused into X (Y*)' as one of the requirements on crew that can be fused into another one, unless they are already frozen.

  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    edited September 21
    -no longer relevant-
  • /SSR/ Tichy/SSR/ Tichy ✭✭✭
    edited September 21
    Are you able to share a copy? I can then have a look at what's happening.

    Sure. Just not sure how to do that from my google drive :smile:
    Found the link.

  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    Not sure what changed there but I copied over the data for my vip0 account from the 3.16 sheet. Aleek-Oom who is a decent voyager for now had had been marked in the 3.20b sheet as space/freeze. Unchecked the active button and he got a unfreeze recommendation. So he's either freeze or unfreeze and nothing else :)
    Issue identified, thanks again for sharing!

    The 3.20b version has a feature to set a threshold for how much better a crew needs to be at voyages than your worst active voyager for that skill combination, to be recommended as an upgrade. The idea is to avoid the sheet recommending very minor upgrades. I have set this default to 50 voyage points for now, which I think is reasonably fair.

    That threshold was also getting applied to the active crew themselves, however, which means that the worst active voyager lost the requirement as their score is not better than their own score + 50. When freezing them, they then immediately regained it for being better than the next worst active voyager + 50.

    As said in PM, I will change it to ensure that the threshold value only applies to unobtained crew - I think it would actually be okay if the sheet suggested unfreezing more marginal upgrades, since you already have them anyway.
  • MururoaMururoa ✭✭
    edited September 23
    Leshy wrote: »
    As of 3.15, the sheet does take fusable crew into account. It should list 'Can be fused into X (Y*)' as one of the requirements on crew that can be fused into another one, unless they are already frozen.
    Oki.
    I must admit I still stick with 3.14 version since this is such an headache for me to change from version to next one.
    But now it's time to upgrade ... with the next version to come. 3.20 ?
    Can someone repoint me to the correct upgrade procedure ?
  • Here's what i just did to copy my data from the 3.16 to 3.17 sheet, time take to write this up was longer than the copy work.

    1. Move my old one to diff folder
    2. Make a new copy on my g-drive
    3. Open the settings tab, multi-select 3x, space bar to turn these calculations off
    4. Copy the Starbase and Collection percentages, and Ctrl+Shift+V to paste them ovfer as Values Only
    5. Missions Tab, multi-select the Victorious Factions, and Ctrl-Shift-V (values only) over to display the proper checkboxes.
    6. Multi Select + spacebar makes quick work of all the missions ... otherwise paste values only is your friend again.
    7. Crew Tab , unfilter all collumns to default view, sort by name A-Z, then Version Z-A on both sheets,
    8. multi-select Active/Keep/Notes cells, and Ctrl+Shift+V to the new sheet.
    9. multi-select all cells in Row B ( Fusion #) and paste them over ...
    10. re-apply your filter preferences and you are ready to go ....

    Seems like alot of steps, but took less than few minutes mostly because i had to wait for the sheet to finish internal calculations...
    I found this order to work faster than starting with crew-tab first ...
  • Leshy wrote: »
    I would also be interested in hearing whether the Voyage rankings make sense for you. You can see these on the 'Voyage Scores' tab, where the crew can be sorted from high to low by skill combination.

    The rankings in this version of the sheet will differ from the voyage rankings commonly used in other tools, but I think they mostly make sense.

    I think I understand them but I'm not sure how to use them the way I want to. First, it's not accurately showing "Active: TRUE/FALSE" per the checked crew in the other tab.

    Second, I'm not sure how to sort to get the calculations I want: how do I list the characters in descending order of "SCI-CMD voyage value"? I know I can sort descending by voyage scores per skill pair, but "SCI-CMD" and "CMD-SCI" work differently (per skill weighting in the actual voyage- I think it's 35% / 25% / 10% / 10% / 10% / 10%). The listing I get starts with Honored Owosekun (SCI high), First Officer Burnham (CMD high), Mountaineer Spock (SCI high), The Bashirs (CMD high), and Science Officer Spock (SCI high).

    Third, I'd also like to see a total voyage score value on the same sheet.

    Great work as usual!
  • This is a very subjective thing, so I'll completely understand if you find it too situational or too time-consuming to implement.

    I just got my first star for Ardra, and the sheet recommends I space her. I don't want to do this, because she's a much better skirmish/arena option than the crew I had, so I marked her as keep, which is obviously fine as a workaround.

    But do you think it would be feasible to add a 'need' note to outstanding skirmish crew? There's Ardra and one particular 5* Scotty who are good in ship combat, and of course Killy. "Recommend skirmish crew" could be added as a checkable option in the settings tab, perhaps, so that people who don't care about arena or events don't need to see those options.
  • This is a very subjective thing, so I'll completely understand if you find it too situational or too time-consuming to implement.

    I just got my first star for Ardra, and the sheet recommends I space her. I don't want to do this, because she's a much better skirmish/arena option than the crew I had, so I marked her as keep, which is obviously fine as a workaround.

    But do you think it would be feasible to add a 'need' note to outstanding skirmish crew? There's Ardra and one particular 5* Scotty who are good in ship combat, and of course Killy. "Recommend skirmish crew" could be added as a checkable option in the settings tab, perhaps, so that people who don't care about arena or events don't need to see those options.

    I think the problem here is that you cannot objectively define "outstanding skirmish crew" based on stats. The sheet currently doesn't have any information on ship battle abilities, and even if it did, the usefulness would be depending on a ton of factors, like what ship you're using and other crew you have on your ship bridge. Implementing something like this would be pure hell, and as you already indicated, the "Mark as keep" column is a pretty good workaround here.
  • Oh, agreed: it would have to be a manual shortlist, I'd imagine, so fairly fiddly to do. I just don't know anything about ship battles so it'd be useful for me personally.
  • For Arena/Skirmish information .. use the other community resources which, they do have this info alongside the characters... T

    Big Book of Beholds
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vvl3wS1cY29ScQwWcTA6tJgcXvbdadY6vgPpn0swzbs/view

    STT Lvl 100 List
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zrObDH5UtTOfSm37pdMVmm7hwr2u6kMDgdWZpwfjON8/htmlview

    STT Wiki Ship abilities listing
    https://stt.wiki/wiki/Bonus_Ability

    Personally i always try to check the write up in the BBB and Gauntlet info from these sheets .. to determine what would benefit my roster most, since that is different for every player's roster.
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    SpukkZ wrote: »
    I think the problem here is that you cannot objectively define "outstanding skirmish crew" based on stats.
    This is the main issue and why I have never implemented anything like it.

    Adding in a requirement or a notice to say "This crew is really good for the Arena" in itself is trivial. Even adding in the Arena abilities and stats of crew is not too difficult, although it is maybe a bit of work.

    It is just very difficult to do it in a meaningful way – there is not really a definitive list of "best Arena crew", and the best crew do not necessarily depend on raw stats with more = better. Some crew are great with specific ships or combinations with other crew, or change depending on what everyone else is doing. It is also difficult to make recommendations based on Arena crew: Captain Killy would obviously make the list of Arena crew to keep, and since Rura Penthe Commandant has the same ability, he should also be on the list. But should the sheet still recommend Rura Penthe Commandant if you already have Captain Killy? Or the other way around? Would you need both? And who should the sheet recommend to pair up with Commander Kang? Only Mirror "Smiley" O'Brien, or one of several other valid options? Should the sheet list the best Evasion, Accuracy, and Damage crew, when the most popular arena choice happens to be Damage crew only?

    It can get pretty complicated pretty quickly to really make useful recommendations. I would love to hear it if someone has a great idea, but I think as JiveDutch suggested, that resources such as the Big Book of Behold are a better choice to say "Oh, this crew may not quite the best, but is still pretty strong in Arena, especially when paired up with crew X or Y on Ship Z."
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    MuadDave wrote: »
    I think I understand them but I'm not sure how to use them the way I want to. First, it's not accurately showing "Active: TRUE/FALSE" per the checked crew in the other tab.
    Can you share an example of where it is not correctly displaying?
    Second, I'm not sure how to sort to get the calculations I want: how do I list the characters in descending order of "SCI-CMD voyage value"?
    For ease of calculations, the sheet does not make a difference between primary and secondary skill in a Voyage. Most of the recommendations that I see on the forums also tend not make any distinction: it usually is something along the lines of "To get an x hour Voyage, you'll want 12k for your primary and secondary skill, and then 5k for the rest."

    The CMD/SCI pairing therefore covers both CMD/SCI/x and SCI/CMD/x crew.
    Third, I'd also like to see a total voyage score value on the same sheet.
    In principle, all values listed are total voyage scores – just calculated for that particular combination.

    Eg. Captain Braxton may have the highest stat combination for any crew, but that is really mostly helpful for CMD/ENG voyages. For a SEC/MED, SCI/ENG, or DIP/MED voyage, he would be increasingly less useful and fall behind other crew, despite being the "#1 Voyager". The scores in this version of the sheet try to reflect that.
  • I'm just discovering this file now, so maybe this has been discussed. But I am getting some recommendations to airlock some characters (like Deanna Troi, Dabo Girl Leela) who are part of collections. They don't seem to be included. Is this an error, oversight, or are they being part of a collection factored into it all?
    Thanks!
  • I'm just discovering this file now, so maybe this has been discussed. But I am getting some recommendations to airlock some characters (like Deanna Troi, Dabo Girl Leela) who are part of collections. They don't seem to be included. Is this an error, oversight, or are they being part of a collection factored into it all?
    Thanks!

    Airlock or Freeze? and is the collection complete already?
  • edited September 30
    It is saying "Space", and the collection doesn't have 1 person completed.
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    But I am getting some recommendations to airlock some characters (like Deanna Troi, Dabo Girl Leela) who are part of collections.
    Deanna Troi and Dabo Girl Leeta are correctly listed as part of the collections Rare Crew and Uncommon Crew respectively in the latest version 3.17. Unless those collections are completed or the setting 'Collections' on the Settings tab is switched off, they should display normally.

    Can you share a copy of your sheet where the issue shows?
  • Sure thing, thanks for the help!

    Looks like I can't share links because my account is too new. You have an email address?
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    Sent you a PM!
  • philsfphilsf ✭✭
    Hey @Leshy , I just tested the following simple trick on your sheet (worked on v3.16 and v3.17):

    Removing the apostrophe (') in all crew names in column =Stats!$C, makes the sorting on that column match almost exactly the game alphabetical sort. There are only a few variant names that are different (e.g. Amanda Grayson vs Grayson; Kmtar vs Alexander; etc.), but it is clear that the game does not take the symbol into account when sorting variants.

    I needed this to identify a couple immortalised crew that were incorrectly not marked as such in my sheet copy, so this might be useful for newcomers. I don't think there is any functional difference in my copy, except a cosmetic difference when I select variants in setup for events.

    Do you think this change is worth for a future version?
  • I've noticed that the sorting is different depending on what client you are using, as Android and Windows clients sort differently. To remedy this, I add a column onto the crew sheet and add another sheet that has all of the crew listed in the order as they appear in game. I used to modify the stats sheet with my order, but it became cumbersome to change it on every iteration.

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  • SpukkZSpukkZ ✭✭
    Queen Po, Zora, Returning Craft and possibly some others aren't marked as being Discovery crew. There's an exhaustive list in the mega event announcement, so it should be easy to bring all crew up to date for this.
  • SvenLundgrenSvenLundgren ✭✭✭✭
    Version 3.17 shows that I have completed To Boldly Go when I only have 24 immortalized in that collection.
    Starfleet Commission: August 12, 2017
  • philsfphilsf ✭✭
    Version 3.17 shows that I have completed To Boldly Go when I only have 24 immortalized in that collection.

    You can use the event crew funcion to filter the collection trait and compare the sheet crew with the in-game colection crew. This way you can pinpoint the one(s) that should not have the trait in the sheet, so Leshy can fix in a future update.
  • SvenLundgrenSvenLundgren ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2
    philsf wrote: »
    Version 3.17 shows that I have completed To Boldly Go when I only have 24 immortalized in that collection.

    You can use the event crew funcion to filter the collection trait and compare the sheet crew with the in-game colection crew. This way you can pinpoint the one(s) that should not have the trait in the sheet, so Leshy can fix in a future update.

    Odd, I just went through and there are no crew with Inspiring the spreadsheet. Need to search for "To Boldly Go" I guess...

    Hmm... no one with "To Boldly Go" in the reason field. Maybe a math error in the formula....
    Starfleet Commission: August 12, 2017
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