Gauntlet "Loot Crate" Drop Rates?

I've noticed that all portal packs have drop rates listed, as do boost packs, and even skirmish loot crates (just click the little (i) info button in the top corner). However, Gauntlet loot crate drop rates are not published like these others.

Part of me wants to see them to confirm the abysmally low drop rates for the featured crew. But on the other hand, it may just frustrate me even more. And before you ask, no, I have not gotten an Armus yet...which is definitely part of the frustration.

Anyway - do you think DB should add the drop rates to the Gauntlet? It would be nice to see them added with an overhaul of the whole Gauntlet...:: hint, hint::

Thoughts from the Collective?

«13

Comments

  • Because you can't spend (in game) money directly on gauntlet loot boxes, DB is not required to publish the drop sales.
    Number of immortals: 336 (27 Common, 47 Uncommon, 75 Rare, 180 SuperRare, 7 Legendary)
    Latest Immortal: Diseased Changeling Founder
    Most anticipated character not in the game: Mr. Homn
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know that according to the 'fine print' db isnt required to post the drop rates, but imo gauntlet is the most casino/gambling (rigged?) form of the game. Here is my reasoning...someone can pay 650 dil to get a guaranteed purple crew (with the chance of something better), whereas someone can pay 650 dil for crew/streak revives in gauntlet and walk away with some green garbage and chrons (worst case scinario, they walk away with all trainers or even nothing at all!!), so by golly they should post the drop rates, especially since they do it for the skirmish boxes!!

    DB doesn't want to publish anything. They operate with the mindset that the less they tell their customers, the better their sales will be.

    Portal and skirmish drops have published rates because Apple requires it to be in the app store. Anything that Apple doesn't require, DB will not post.
  • edited February 3
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I know that according to the 'fine print' db isnt required to post the drop rates, but imo gauntlet is the most casino/gambling (rigged?) form of the game. Here is my reasoning...someone can pay 650 dil to get a guaranteed purple crew (with the chance of something better), whereas someone can pay 650 dil for crew/streak revives in gauntlet and walk away with some green garbage and chrons (worst case scinario, they walk away with all trainers or even nothing at all!!), so by golly they should post the drop rates, especially since they do it for the skirmish boxes!!

    DB doesn't want to publish anything. They operate with the mindset that the less they tell their customers, the better their sales will be.

    Portal and skirmish drops have published rates because Apple requires it to be in the app store. Anything that Apple doesn't require, DB will not post.

    How are skirmish loot boxes required to have the odds posted but not gauntlet loot boxes? Guess i can add it to their list of grievances including bendgate, the facetime bug, and still embracing the notch :smirk:
    Edit: im speaking about apple, not db
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whatever the odds are they are crazy low for the good stuff.
  • AviTrek wrote: »
    I know that according to the 'fine print' db isnt required to post the drop rates, but imo gauntlet is the most casino/gambling (rigged?) form of the game. Here is my reasoning...someone can pay 650 dil to get a guaranteed purple crew (with the chance of something better), whereas someone can pay 650 dil for crew/streak revives in gauntlet and walk away with some green garbage and chrons (worst case scinario, they walk away with all trainers or even nothing at all!!), so by golly they should post the drop rates, especially since they do it for the skirmish boxes!!

    DB doesn't want to publish anything. They operate with the mindset that the less they tell their customers, the better their sales will be.

    Portal and skirmish drops have published rates because Apple requires it to be in the app store. Anything that Apple doesn't require, DB will not post.

    How are skirmish loot boxes required to have the odds posted but not gauntlet loot boxes? Guess i can add it to their list of grievances including bendgate, the facetime bug, and still embracing the notch :smirk:
    Edit: im speaking about apple, not db

    You can buy skirmish loot boxes with dilithium. Publication of drop rates is then required by EU law. Gauntlet loot boxes can not be bought.

    Number of immortals: 336 (27 Common, 47 Uncommon, 75 Rare, 180 SuperRare, 7 Legendary)
    Latest Immortal: Diseased Changeling Founder
    Most anticipated character not in the game: Mr. Homn
  • AviTrek wrote: »
    I know that according to the 'fine print' db isnt required to post the drop rates, but imo gauntlet is the most casino/gambling (rigged?) form of the game. Here is my reasoning...someone can pay 650 dil to get a guaranteed purple crew (with the chance of something better), whereas someone can pay 650 dil for crew/streak revives in gauntlet and walk away with some green garbage and chrons (worst case scinario, they walk away with all trainers or even nothing at all!!), so by golly they should post the drop rates, especially since they do it for the skirmish boxes!!

    DB doesn't want to publish anything. They operate with the mindset that the less they tell their customers, the better their sales will be.

    Portal and skirmish drops have published rates because Apple requires it to be in the app store. Anything that Apple doesn't require, DB will not post.

    How are skirmish loot boxes required to have the odds posted but not gauntlet loot boxes? Guess i can add it to their list of grievances including bendgate, the facetime bug, and still embracing the notch :smirk:
    Edit: im speaking about apple, not db

    You can buy skirmish loot boxes with dilithium. Publication of drop rates is then required by EU law. Gauntlet loot boxes can not be bought.

    Ah i understand, and since gauntlet loot boxes arent tied to dilithium directly...oof
  • This is a huge problem with Gauntlet. Unless you hit the lottery, you fall farther and farther behind players with "Dropped" characters. It makes it less and less valuable to play. I usually stall out around 60-80 because of walls of the special characters. I never get beyond 18 in a row. So, the same players get richer and the rest of us remain cannon fodder. I play now some to get an occasional chrono.

  • Thoughts from the Collective?

    Hmm well my thoughts are the odds 99.9% blue trainers and 0.1% everything else...

    😆
    Disruptor Beam = Do Better !
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah. There should be a little transparency.

    Like "best chance" is not a very informative piece of data.

    For all we know the odds get better like

    0.0000000001%
    0.0000000002%
    0.0000000003%
    0.0000000004%
    0.0000000005%


    So, "best" could easily be barely better than the worst crate.............
    Have a donut on the hoose!!!
  • I swear all I get are blue trainers. Which means I get nothing because all of my trainers are maxed out (except for the purple ones for some reason).
  • JeanLucKirkJeanLucKirk ✭✭✭✭
    Hope1010 wrote: »
    It seems that some of you expect to see far better drops than what you are getting. Why? Why are you expectations so high?

    Yeah. Personally I regard the Gauntlet as my personal merit "farm". In case a cool character should drop "as bonus" like in the past it is fine, but I don´t expect it.

  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got an 18 streak last night. 1 1* sensor, and 5 sets of blue trainers. So yeah, it's quite heavily skewed towards those.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    7 for placing 47th. Some Chronies and a Rare Portal. Rest unmentionables..
    Have a donut on the hoose!!!
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hope1010 wrote: »
    It seems that some of you expect to see far better drops than what you are getting. Why? Why are you expectations so high? I have been playing for about 7 months and have completed almost 3000 rounds in the Gauntlet. I have yet to win an Armus or the previous legendary.

    If we all had higher rates of winning the Armus, then it would simply become too boring, and we would have something else to complain about. The fact that Armus is rare and so hard to get makes the whole enterprise worthwhile. I know of a couple of people who have won the Armus. They just got lucky. The same thing goes for the Dabo wheel.

    I try, and try, and try, and always try one more time. And when I do get the Armus, I will be so excited and grateful.

    Yep. The players that complain about not getting Armus/Caretaker are also the ones complaining about the walls of the same crew. If they were easier to get we'd see nothing but walls of gauntlet exclusives.

    I've always been in favor of making them even more exclusive. Swap the crew every month or two for equally valuable crew. Make it so most people don't have the same crew but instead you see a variety of everyone having a different mix of gauntlet crew.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hope1010 wrote: »
    It seems that some of you expect to see far better drops than what you are getting. Why? Why are you expectations so high? I have been playing for about 7 months and have completed almost 3000 rounds in the Gauntlet. I have yet to win an Armus or the previous legendary.

    If we all had higher rates of winning the Armus, then it would simply become too boring, and we would have something else to complain about. The fact that Armus is rare and so hard to get makes the whole enterprise worthwhile. I know of a couple of people who have won the Armus. They just got lucky. The same thing goes for the Dabo wheel.

    I try, and try, and try, and always try one more time. And when I do get the Armus, I will be so excited and grateful.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I am just saying that publishing the odds {like is required to be done for the "direct buy" RNG stuff} is just a nice piece of transparency. All we know is the Top boxes are "Best Chance" of dropping {currently} Armus. But, knowing that the lowest chance box is {for example} 0.0000000001% chance of dropping Armus and the "best chance" box has a 0.0000000005% chance of dropping Armus, that is actual data. "Best Chance" is not informative. Actual odds is informative.




    I think most of us realize finishing 45th and getting seven boxes is probably more likely to have good results, than finishing 5th and getting three boxes that might be a very slightly better drop rate.........


    Have a donut on the hoose!!!
  • ByloBandByloBand ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a huge problem with Gauntlet. Unless you hit the lottery, you fall farther and farther behind players with "Dropped" characters. It makes it less and less valuable to play. I usually stall out around 60-80 because of walls of the special characters. I never get beyond 18 in a row. So, the same players get richer and the rest of us remain cannon fodder. I play now some to get an occasional chrono.

    Well, yes, I definitely agree you need wall-breakers, but you don't need the dropped Gauntlet legendaries to be those wall-breakers. It looks that way because people overplay them once they have them, but there are usually quite a few better crew in any given gauntlet. My gauntlet life didn't turn around when I finally got a Caretaker (though it helped), it turned around when I picked up Defensive Phlox (I can't recall how) and Gary Seven (from an ET) in short order. My gut sense is, it takes a stable of about 3 power gauntleteers, acquired however you can, to get past the rank 60-80 barrier of frustration. My other two "seats" are usually filled with crew that are less brute force and more star players that day due to featured skill/traits.

    A rub is that many (not all) of the better gauntlet crew are in Tuesday packs, so one of the better ways to acquire them is to save up for an Elusive Treasures 10-pack every few months. But there are also plenty of days when old die-hards and event rewards are all over the top 10 best crew to field. I posted some top 25 lineups day by day in a recent thread on this ... you can look at the lineups yourself to see if you think they are unobtainium ...

    Here are some estimates for # of better crew than the dropped Legendaries for the last bunch of Gauntlets in my series, taking into account featured skills and crits. Of these, I think only Locutus is fair to call "peerless", but "exceptionally valuable" isn't the same thing as "required" ... I don't have him (or Guinan), wish I did, but get by without.

    For The Caretaker

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 15 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 31
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 5
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 3
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 7
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 22
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 3
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 8
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 22
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 23

    For Armus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 11 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 0
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 0
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 4
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 12
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 4
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 12
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 17
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 13
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 16

    For Bartender Guinan:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 2 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 7
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 35
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 2
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 2
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 32
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 32
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 7
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 2
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 0

    For Locutus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 0 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 1
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 1
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 7
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 4
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 6
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 5
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 0
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 0
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 1

    PS - if by "richer" you mean, swimming in 3-star trainers, yep, I'm a gazillionaire
    :-)

    First, well put together, and thoughtful. I am sad your stuff never gets as many "Awesomes" as they deserve.

    I don't care to track it because as others have said, the return on investment (in this case time spent tracking) is just not worth it, but I swear I see the Med/Eng combo repeatedly in every Gauntlet, no matter what the featured skill is, and without fail it is a wall of Banjos. I do not have a Banjoman so I have to choose to spend the merits to skip it, or red shirt somebody and end my streak. Lately I'e been spending the merits to skip it and invariably I'll get to Med/Eng again in 2-3 rounds.

    I felt a similar thing was going on when Banjoman was the featured crew, like the combos that benefited from Locutus and Bartender came up more frequently than they should have. I have no data to back this up and quite frankly I bet if we DID have the data it would show that this is not the case, but it just sort of feels like the Gauntlet is set up to encourage people with Gauntlet featured crew to benefit from having them.

    I mean yeah, the featured crew are not ALWAYS the best choice, but they are never a bad choice, and for that reason alone I really think there needs to be a way for people to get copies of those older featured crew. I can see how people who "won" a Bartender or Banjoman might be upset that they are losing a competitive advantage, but I'd counter by saying that getting lucky is not a skill and they have had many, many months to benefit from that advantage, so even if the field is leveled now the benefits will never be level.
    I've written a 43 page guide to Star Trek Timelines called "Bylo's Guide to Most Things" v1.1; it is available to members of my fleet, Starport. If this sounds like something you are interested in, consider joining our fleet.
  • ByloBand wrote: »
    This is a huge problem with Gauntlet. Unless you hit the lottery, you fall farther and farther behind players with "Dropped" characters. It makes it less and less valuable to play. I usually stall out around 60-80 because of walls of the special characters. I never get beyond 18 in a row. So, the same players get richer and the rest of us remain cannon fodder. I play now some to get an occasional chrono.

    Well, yes, I definitely agree you need wall-breakers, but you don't need the dropped Gauntlet legendaries to be those wall-breakers. It looks that way because people overplay them once they have them, but there are usually quite a few better crew in any given gauntlet. My gauntlet life didn't turn around when I finally got a Caretaker (though it helped), it turned around when I picked up Defensive Phlox (I can't recall how) and Gary Seven (from an ET) in short order. My gut sense is, it takes a stable of about 3 power gauntleteers, acquired however you can, to get past the rank 60-80 barrier of frustration. My other two "seats" are usually filled with crew that are less brute force and more star players that day due to featured skill/traits.

    A rub is that many (not all) of the better gauntlet crew are in Tuesday packs, so one of the better ways to acquire them is to save up for an Elusive Treasures 10-pack every few months. But there are also plenty of days when old die-hards and event rewards are all over the top 10 best crew to field. I posted some top 25 lineups day by day in a recent thread on this ... you can look at the lineups yourself to see if you think they are unobtainium ...

    Here are some estimates for # of better crew than the dropped Legendaries for the last bunch of Gauntlets in my series, taking into account featured skills and crits. Of these, I think only Locutus is fair to call "peerless", but "exceptionally valuable" isn't the same thing as "required" ... I don't have him (or Guinan), wish I did, but get by without.

    For The Caretaker

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 15 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 31
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 5
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 3
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 7
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 22
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 3
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 8
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 22
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 23

    For Armus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 11 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 0
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 0
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 4
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 12
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 4
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 12
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 17
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 13
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 16

    For Bartender Guinan:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 2 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 7
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 35
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 2
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 2
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 32
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 32
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 7
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 2
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 0

    For Locutus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 0 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 1
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 1
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 7
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 4
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 6
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 5
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 0
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 0
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 1

    PS - if by "richer" you mean, swimming in 3-star trainers, yep, I'm a gazillionaire
    :-)

    First, well put together, and thoughtful. I am sad your stuff never gets as many "Awesomes" as they deserve.

    I don't care to track it because as others have said, the return on investment (in this case time spent tracking) is just not worth it, but I swear I see the Med/Eng combo repeatedly in every Gauntlet, no matter what the featured skill is, and without fail it is a wall of Banjos. I do not have a Banjoman so I have to choose to spend the merits to skip it, or red shirt somebody and end my streak. Lately I'e been spending the merits to skip it and invariably I'll get to Med/Eng again in 2-3 rounds.

    I felt a similar thing was going on when Banjoman was the featured crew, like the combos that benefited from Locutus and Bartender came up more frequently than they should have. I have no data to back this up and quite frankly I bet if we DID have the data it would show that this is not the case, but it just sort of feels like the Gauntlet is set up to encourage people with Gauntlet featured crew to benefit from having them.

    I mean yeah, the featured crew are not ALWAYS the best choice, but they are never a bad choice, and for that reason alone I really think there needs to be a way for people to get copies of those older featured crew. I can see how people who "won" a Bartender or Banjoman might be upset that they are losing a competitive advantage, but I'd counter by saying that getting lucky is not a skill and they have had many, many months to benefit from that advantage, so even if the field is leveled now the benefits will never be level.

    Well db did release that rejoin the collective pack with locutus in it a few times...i think its time they released a pack featuring Guinan sometime soon because in one of their QnAs it was stated that db will be making gauntlet only crew easier to aquire (if they mean the majority of players having to spend over $100 to get locutus is easy...cause i dont know about you but coughing up $100 for a one star with out the guarentee of even getting him...eh no!!)
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    They listened:
    - Gauntlet Update

    • We're adding a secondary chance table to the loot boxes where Captains can earn previous Gauntlet exclusive crew such as Locutus and Bartender Guinan! Both chance tables will have the same probability, so this change ultimately doubles the likelihood of receiving one of the Gauntlet exclusives from loot boxes.
    • The odds of receiving Gauntlet exclusive crew from Loot Boxes is being significantly increased.
    • The best chances to receive Gauntlet crew can be found in the Gauntlet loot boxes that come from ranking amongst the top Gauntlet players.
    • Some Gauntlets will be rebalanced in terms of bonus traits. This should allow for more crew to be usable in those Gauntlets.
    "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that
    makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

    #STOPMACROS
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    I thought the same thing when I read it, and since I recently immortalized my Locutus when I got him from Achievements.
    "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that
    makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

    #STOPMACROS
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    I’m not holding out any expectations of it suddenly raining Guinans. Hopefully what the 2x change will do is not leave dedicated gauntleteers with absolutely nothing to show at the end of a 6 month run. I suspect just looking at the anecdotal reports of got / didn’t get that the calibration was such that it ended up somewhere in the 50/50 range, which is pretty harsh given all that work. A doubled drop rate would push that much closer to 100% for at least one drop, but not necessarily mean tons of new stars ...

    PS both of these changes are awesome, THANK YOU DB!
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
  • 5000 Quatloos5000 Quatloos ✭✭✭✭✭
    ByloBand wrote: »
    This is a huge problem with Gauntlet. Unless you hit the lottery, you fall farther and farther behind players with "Dropped" characters. It makes it less and less valuable to play. I usually stall out around 60-80 because of walls of the special characters. I never get beyond 18 in a row. So, the same players get richer and the rest of us remain cannon fodder. I play now some to get an occasional chrono.

    Well, yes, I definitely agree you need wall-breakers, but you don't need the dropped Gauntlet legendaries to be those wall-breakers. It looks that way because people overplay them once they have them, but there are usually quite a few better crew in any given gauntlet. My gauntlet life didn't turn around when I finally got a Caretaker (though it helped), it turned around when I picked up Defensive Phlox (I can't recall how) and Gary Seven (from an ET) in short order. My gut sense is, it takes a stable of about 3 power gauntleteers, acquired however you can, to get past the rank 60-80 barrier of frustration. My other two "seats" are usually filled with crew that are less brute force and more star players that day due to featured skill/traits.

    A rub is that many (not all) of the better gauntlet crew are in Tuesday packs, so one of the better ways to acquire them is to save up for an Elusive Treasures 10-pack every few months. But there are also plenty of days when old die-hards and event rewards are all over the top 10 best crew to field. I posted some top 25 lineups day by day in a recent thread on this ... you can look at the lineups yourself to see if you think they are unobtainium ...

    Here are some estimates for # of better crew than the dropped Legendaries for the last bunch of Gauntlets in my series, taking into account featured skills and crits. Of these, I think only Locutus is fair to call "peerless", but "exceptionally valuable" isn't the same thing as "required" ... I don't have him (or Guinan), wish I did, but get by without.

    For The Caretaker

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 15 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 31
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 5
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 3
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 7
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 22
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 3
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 8
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 22
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 23

    For Armus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 11 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 0
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 0
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 4
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 12
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 4
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 12
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 17
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 13
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 16

    For Bartender Guinan:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 2 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 7
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 35
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 2
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 2
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 32
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 32
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 7
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 2
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 0

    For Locutus:

    Feb 1 (DIP / Section 31, Constable, Spiritual): 0 better crew
    Jan 30 (SEC / Brutal, Villain Marksman): 1
    Jan 28 (SEC / Desperate, Saboteur, Tactician): 1
    Jan 26 (MED / Civilian, Tactician, Desperate): 7
    Jan 24 (MED / Gamber, Hologram, Civilian): 4
    Jan 22 (CMD / Klingon, Veteran, Dahar Master): 6
    Jan 20 (ENG / Federation, Resourceful, Warp Theorist): 5
    Jan 18 (DIP / Klingon, Investigator, Cultural Figure): 0
    Jan 16 (DIP / Hunter, Astrophysicist, Bajoran): 0
    Jan 14 (DIP / El-Aurian, Marksman, Communicator): 1

    PS - if by "richer" you mean, swimming in 3-star trainers, yep, I'm a gazillionaire
    :-)

    First, well put together, and thoughtful. I am sad your stuff never gets as many "Awesomes" as they deserve.

    I don't care to track it because as others have said, the return on investment (in this case time spent tracking) is just not worth it, but I swear I see the Med/Eng combo repeatedly in every Gauntlet, no matter what the featured skill is, and without fail it is a wall of Banjos. I do not have a Banjoman so I have to choose to spend the merits to skip it, or red shirt somebody and end my streak. Lately I'e been spending the merits to skip it and invariably I'll get to Med/Eng again in 2-3 rounds.

    I felt a similar thing was going on when Banjoman was the featured crew, like the combos that benefited from Locutus and Bartender came up more frequently than they should have. I have no data to back this up and quite frankly I bet if we DID have the data it would show that this is not the case, but it just sort of feels like the Gauntlet is set up to encourage people with Gauntlet featured crew to benefit from having them.

    I mean yeah, the featured crew are not ALWAYS the best choice, but they are never a bad choice, and for that reason alone I really think there needs to be a way for people to get copies of those older featured crew. I can see how people who "won" a Bartender or Banjoman might be upset that they are losing a competitive advantage, but I'd counter by saying that getting lucky is not a skill and they have had many, many months to benefit from that advantage, so even if the field is leveled now the benefits will never be level.

    Lol for me it’s Guinan, it appears to me that DIP-whatever comes up far too often, and her wall kills me, but if I tracked I suspect the odds would be fair.

    At the end of the day even a Banjo v Banjo match is still effectively a 50/50 crapshoot. I think the only question is who are you going to sacrifice to the wall that has the best nonzero chance of failing as an occasional lucky strike. I think this is why the rule of thumb I came up with seems to make sense (accumulate at least 3 power gauntleteers from wherever) and changed my experience ... I can sacrifice someone to the wall and still have 2 or 3 strong crew left untouched to press on during subsequent rounds. But I’ll admit that might just be more magical thinking that I’ve built my own storyline around. :-)
    Accepted. Mark them, Galt.
  • Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    Nothing is planned, no. This is definitely a value-add, and it's different than the Voyage situation.

    With Voyages, there was previously a hard limit on how many of certain crew you could get and you had to cite them to complete and immortalize them. With Gauntlet, there was always a chance (though RNG affected, smaller chance) of getting more crew, so you didn't HAVE to cite crew to complete them. There have also been some past Gauntlet crew available outside in the gauntlet in other places in the game like a pack or two.
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    I thought the same thing when I read it, and since I recently immortalized my Locutus when I got him from Achievements.

    I'm holding on to about 10% hope, since I'd be in line to get 200k honor back. I bought 3 citations for Locutus after getting him as an achievement, and just added 1 citation to The Caretaker after getting him 3 times via the gauntlet.
  • Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    Nothing is planned, no. This is definitely a value-add, and it's different than the Voyage situation.

    With Voyages, there was previously a hard limit on how many of certain crew you could get and you had to cite them to complete and immortalize them. With Gauntlet, there was always a chance (though RNG affected, smaller chance) of getting more crew, so you didn't HAVE to cite crew to complete them. There have also been some past Gauntlet crew available outside in the gauntlet in other places in the game like a pack or two.

    In this case, having 2 copies of gauntlet crew is still super valuable. I've used 2 guinans and 2 caretakers in the right gauntlet. Plus with the ability to add more, having 2 of them for voyages is awesome. It's not quite like getting a 6th star of some random crew you will never use again.
    Task Force April now has openings! Lvl 102 Starbase! Task Force April is Looking for You!
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    I wonder if they will refund honor spent to add citations to these gauntlet-only crew, as they did when they made multiple copies of voyage-only crew available via voyages?

    Nothing is planned, no. This is definitely a value-add, and it's different than the Voyage situation.

    With Voyages, there was previously a hard limit on how many of certain crew you could get and you had to cite them to complete and immortalize them. With Gauntlet, there was always a chance (though RNG affected, smaller chance) of getting more crew, so you didn't HAVE to cite crew to complete them. There have also been some past Gauntlet crew available outside in the gauntlet in other places in the game like a pack or two.

    Actually, not true. Before this announcement, there were no known ways to get previous Gauntlet crew, so you would HAVE TO cite them if you only had 1+ of them, just like the Voyage predicament.

    You could have said the exact same thing about the Voyage announcement as a "value-add" when you made the change.

    Please explain how these problems differ?

    (Don't take this as an attack or, that I'm not grateful, I just want you to understand your explanation doesn't hold up)
    "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that
    makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

    #STOPMACROS
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