Crusher or Kahless?

I am early / mid game. I have a ton of lvl1 cards that I need to build, so buying beholds or begolds, while fun, doesn’t really add much to me at this moment (I have 15 10x pulls waiting in queue). So I have decided to save up to get Crusher or Kahless.

I initially thought I was going to go for Kahless, but I wonder if he isn’t a bit too one-dimensional. Crusher should supply a decent if not elite gauntlet performer, but provide additional depth as a med voyager (my primary weakness atm).

But everyone talks about Kahless and how Crusher gets lost in his shadow. Is this only because she gets lost in late game to other med options? Or is he more helpful outside the gauntlet than I expect?

Insight?
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Comments

  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    My vote is for neither. 2 citations on a 5* you have will give you a better voyage bump than either of them at 1/5.

    Kahless is nice for gauntlet, but with all the other gauntlet exclusive crew that you can pick up along the way, I find I do fine without him. If you're overflowing with honor, sure they're nice extra crew to have, but until then I find I have a lot of better uses for honor than either of them.
  • AviTrek wrote: »
    My vote is for neither. 2 citations on a 5* you have will give you a better voyage bump than either of them at 1/5.

    Kahless is nice for gauntlet, but with all the other gauntlet exclusive crew that you can pick up along the way, I find I do fine without him. If you're overflowing with honor, sure they're nice extra crew to have, but until then I find I have a lot of better uses for honor than either of them.

    I am certainly not overflowing in honor. I actually expect it will take me at least another week or so get to the required 100k (I am at about 60k right now).

    I also believe in buying begolds before cits, at least until I have more 5/5s and need my aim to be more true.

    Am I understanding you correctly in saying that you disagree with the big book in rating both Kahless and Crusher as tier 3s? (Honest question)
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both are good, but you need 300K honor to really get the full effect so to speak. Crusher is the rarer skill set of the two. At 1/5 they are both useful in the gauntlet (but totally not a necessity) of course if that's your thing.


    Personally I'd wait a while at least until we know who the new mega 5 will be (should know soon) and their stats so you have 50K honor on hand to cite them right away if they turn out to be good.
  • ByloBandByloBand ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your logic is sound @calsnowskier but there is a minor flaw that will require a re-calibration.

    Kahless by-and-large is exclusively Gauntlet (although occasionally he sneaks onto a voyage for me). But here's the thing, at 1/5 fused he is as good as he is ever going to get in Gauntlet.

    Crusher definitely has the potential to be a big contributor on voyages, but at only 1/5 fused her base stats are COMMAND 572+(165–345), DIPLOMACY 248+(119–245), MEDICINE 536+(303–760).

    So it all boils down to this: IF you buy Captain Beverly Crusher, are you going to invest in citing her up? If yes, I think for your stated reasons it is a justifiable course of action. If not, she is almost certainly not going to help you.

    I have owned Kahless for a while now (I bought him with all the Honor I got from my VIP 14 party) and have never regretted it for a second, he is very useful in Gauntlet.
  • AviTrekAviTrek ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    My vote is for neither. 2 citations on a 5* you have will give you a better voyage bump than either of them at 1/5.

    Kahless is nice for gauntlet, but with all the other gauntlet exclusive crew that you can pick up along the way, I find I do fine without him. If you're overflowing with honor, sure they're nice extra crew to have, but until then I find I have a lot of better uses for honor than either of them.

    I am certainly not overflowing in honor. I actually expect it will take me at least another week or so get to the required 100k (I am at about 60k right now).

    I also believe in buying begolds before cits, at least until I have more 5/5s and need my aim to be more true.

    Am I understanding you correctly in saying that you disagree with the big book in rating both Kahless and Crusher as tier 3s? (Honest question)

    I disagree with a lot of the blindly following guides that I see here. So much so that I don't even know what you mean by "the big book" or "tier 3". I'm not saying they're bad crew, they are both very good crew. But I don't think either are necessary/required.

    What I do disagree with is buying begolds over citations. It's not about being afraid of 5/5s, it's about garbage 5*. I've had plenty of begolds where all the characters are meh. Weak stats, no use in gauntlet or voyages. And with so many 5*, they are likely to stay at 1/5 just wasting space in my roster. For the extra 5k in honor, I'd much rather pick a specific 5* that will strengthen my voyage score.

    You said MED is your weakest Voyage skill. What is the best Med 5* that you have? Would you rather add 2* to that crew and have a 3/5 in one slot or buy Crusher and have another 1/5? If you want to make progress on Voyages, you will eventually need to start running with more 5/5s. Putting 2 citations towards that now will help you more than having another 1/5 that will barely be stronger than the 1/5 you're replacing.
  • With free cits coming on the relative reg through the campaigns, getting her to 5/5 shouldn’t be too difficult in short order (I can get her to 2/5 out of the gate). And even at 1/5, it looks like she will at least be a very competitive med voyager (for me at least; CM Paris 2/4 is my hands-down med champion atm).
  • Personally I'd wait a while at least until we know who the new mega 5 will be (should know soon) and their stats so you have 50K honor on hand to cite them right away if they turn out to be good.
    This is a very sound idea. I may have to digest this one...

    Thank you very much!
  • AviTrek wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    My vote is for neither. 2 citations on a 5* you have will give you a better voyage bump than either of them at 1/5.

    Kahless is nice for gauntlet, but with all the other gauntlet exclusive crew that you can pick up along the way, I find I do fine without him. If you're overflowing with honor, sure they're nice extra crew to have, but until then I find I have a lot of better uses for honor than either of them.

    I am certainly not overflowing in honor. I actually expect it will take me at least another week or so get to the required 100k (I am at about 60k right now).

    I also believe in buying begolds before cits, at least until I have more 5/5s and need my aim to be more true.

    Am I understanding you correctly in saying that you disagree with the big book in rating both Kahless and Crusher as tier 3s? (Honest question)

    I disagree with a lot of the blindly following guides that I see here. So much so that I don't even know what you mean by "the big book" or "tier 3". I'm not saying they're bad crew, they are both very good crew. But I don't think either are necessary/required.

    What I do disagree with is buying begolds over citations. It's not about being afraid of 5/5s, it's about garbage 5*. I've had plenty of begolds where all the characters are meh. Weak stats, no use in gauntlet or voyages. And with so many 5*, they are likely to stay at 1/5 just wasting space in my roster. For the extra 5k in honor, I'd much rather pick a specific 5* that will strengthen my voyage score.

    You said MED is your weakest Voyage skill. What is the best Med 5* that you have? Would you rather add 2* to that crew and have a 3/5 in one slot or buy Crusher and have another 1/5? If you want to make progress on Voyages, you will eventually need to start running with more 5/5s. Putting 2 citations towards that now will help you more than having another 1/5 that will barely be stronger than the 1/5 you're replacing.

    I don’t have a single 5* with the MED skill. I have BR Bashir sitting #2 in queue, though.

    Glad Spock is my only 5/5, and I am still building him. I expect him to be lvl99 by this weekend.
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    With free cits coming on the relative reg through the campaigns, getting her to 5/5 shouldn’t be too difficult in short order (I can get her to 2/5 out of the gate). And even at 1/5, it looks like she will at least be a very competitive med voyager (for me at least; CM Paris 2/4 is my hands-down med champion atm).

    I was at this point a few months ago. For me, it's a thing about wanting the rarest of the rare. I opted for Bev for the MED, got the DYC, but have not cited her any further so far.

    To date, no Voyages, no shuttles, and only a smattering of Gauntlet where MED was the skill. I don't regret the decision, but she is not even in my top10 MED at this point.

    I agree in waiting until the next Honor Hall crew get in there to make an educated decision. (And achieving one or more extra citations to have on hand)
    "When the Future becomes the past, the present will become unlocked."
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we need more information to be most helpful. Do you routinely play gauntlet? Do you have Mirror Picard? If you do not have Mirror Picard and regularly play gauntlet then taking Kahless would be my advice. If you do have Mirror Picard then use the honor to add a star to a legendary you have or to the Mega Event Legendary coming in June. You could just finish Thrax if you have him at 4/5 as well. I have not seen the need for Captain Beverly. She is worse than Guinan in gauntlet and really useful for anything else without multiple stars.
  • Hard choice. Crusher/picard is a force with her med/com combo. But kahless is the only one who can win in a wall of gauntlet picards.
    As far as cites go???? I try to build evenly bcuz its real dissapointing when this happens.
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  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭
    Both are nice in the Gauntlet. I just got Kahless after a long time without him. I got tired of losing to him at 65% in the Gauntlet. I use Beverly far less. In the end, do what you want. I usually stick with legendary citations when spending honor, but get a behold every once in awhile for the fun of it...
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are Recruiting

    Best Event Finish: #7 during Rule 125 Rerun

    604 Immortalized (Not Counting Duplicates)

    Honor Debt: Inconceivable, but maybe DB will take a personal check?
  • With free cits coming on the relative reg through the campaigns, getting her to 5/5 shouldn’t be too difficult in short order (I can get her to 2/5 out of the gate). And even at 1/5, it looks like she will at least be a very competitive med voyager (for me at least; CM Paris 2/4 is my hands-down med champion atm).

    I was at this point a few months ago. For me, it's a thing about wanting the rarest of the rare. I opted for Bev for the MED, got the DYC, but have not cited her any further so far.

    To date, no Voyages, no shuttles, and only a smattering of Gauntlet where MED was the skill. I don't regret the decision, but she is not even in my top10 MED at this point.

    I agree in waiting until the next Honor Hall crew get in there to make an educated decision. (And achieving one or more extra citations to have on hand)

    Have you leveled her at all yet? And she isn’t voyaging for you at 2/5??

    Wow.
  • I think we need more information to be most helpful. Do you routinely play gauntlet? Do you have Mirror Picard? If you do not have Mirror Picard and regularly play gauntlet then taking Kahless would be my advice. If you do have Mirror Picard then use the honor to add a star to a legendary you have or to the Mega Event Legendary coming in June. You could just finish Thrax if you have him at 4/5 as well. I have not seen the need for Captain Beverly. She is worse than Guinan in gauntlet and really useful for anything else without multiple stars.


    The gauntlet is something I am still trying to get a feel for. I typically always have it going, but I have a hard time really competing and the payoffs have been less than worth it.

    I do not have Mirror Picard. I have Surak, but he isn’t built up that much yet.

    Right now, I have Adm. Picard, Thrax, Interfaced LaForge, Queen and Drone 7. This is pretty representative of who I run with (Surviver Kirk, Racquetball Bashir and Augment Riker are a few others who tend to get the call)
  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we need more information to be most helpful. Do you routinely play gauntlet? Do you have Mirror Picard? If you do not have Mirror Picard and regularly play gauntlet then taking Kahless would be my advice. If you do have Mirror Picard then use the honor to add a star to a legendary you have or to the Mega Event Legendary coming in June. You could just finish Thrax if you have him at 4/5 as well. I have not seen the need for Captain Beverly. She is worse than Guinan in gauntlet and really useful for anything else without multiple stars.


    The gauntlet is something I am still trying to get a feel for. I typically always have it going, but I have a hard time really competing and the payoffs have been less than worth it.

    I do not have Mirror Picard. I have Surak, but he isn’t built up that much yet.

    Right now, I have Adm. Picard, Thrax, Interfaced LaForge, Queen and Drone 7. This is pretty representative of who I run with (Surviver Kirk, Racquetball Bashir and Augment Riker are a few others who tend to get the call)
    I would recommend waiting until we see who the event legendary will be and what his/her stats will be in the month event starting next week. We should know by Wed or Fri of this week. In the meantime lvl up that Surak as quick as you can. You are missing out on gauntlets each day he isnt lvl100. Do you have Nurse Garland or Mirror Phlox? They are both very good medical super rares.
  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    One bit of advice I would add, is to remember that this game is a marathon, not a sprint. Getting better and more competitive in all aspects takes time and patience. A quick-fix decision today may not be the best investment longer term, and ultimately it may not even make that big a difference in the short term either.

    If this was a vote, mine would be:

    1. Neither Honor Hall crew at this time - instead, add a star to a current 5* crew or a future recurring mega 5* who has 3 great stats. Kahless is a gauntlet luxury, and Crusher doesn't get on a ton of voyages for me even at 4/5.

    2. Spend 50k honor to add a citation to your choice of 5* crew, instead of spending 45k honor on an unknown commodity. Yes, you could hit the jackpot and add a new stud 5* crew, or you could get a beGold with terrible choices.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Webberoni wrote: »
    One bit of advice I would add, is to remember that this game is a marathon, not a sprint. Getting better and more competitive in all aspects takes time and patience. A quick-fix decision today may not be the best investment longer term, and ultimately it may not even make that big a difference in the short term either.

    If this was a vote, mine would be:

    1. Neither Honor Hall crew at this time - instead, add a star to a current 5* crew or a future recurring mega 5* who has 3 great stats. Kahless is a gauntlet luxury, and Crusher doesn't get on a ton of voyages for me even at 4/5.

    2. Spend 50k honor to add a citation to your choice of 5* crew, instead of spending 45k honor on an unknown commodity. Yes, you could hit the jackpot and add a new stud 5* crew, or you could get a beGold with terrible choices.

    I second this in its entirety. Cap’n Bev is more important later on when trying to maximize particular voyage combos (value-over-replacement compared to anyone else not named Reverend Phlox, for example). Kahless can be a powerful gauntleteer (even when not at 65% bonus) and is a very solid voyager at 5/5*, but you will get more bang for your buck by using citations on someone else. Bell Riots Bashir comes to mind as a good citation target, given your dearth of 5* doctors.

    But before you go adding stars to Bashir, definitely wait to see at least who the next mega event recurring legendary is. A citation for a final star on whomever that happens to be could be even more valuable than a third star on Bashir. You could also wait for the next honor hall exclusive crew but they are likely to be in the same boat as Kahless and Crusher: not as valuable to you right now at 1/5* as two more stars on someone else.
  • Have they ever changed the honor lineup? I got the sense it has been Crusher and Kahless since it’s inception.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have they ever changed the honor lineup? I got the sense it has been Crusher and Kahless since it’s inception.

    Kahless was the first 5* and the only one for a long time. After much worrying and hand-wringing, Crusher was added alongside Kahless rather than instead of him.
  • When was that? Is there reason to believe there will be a switch or add in the coming months?
  • Anyway, thanks for all the insight, guys. I have a week or so to make my decision, but it appears that pretty much everyone thinks my plan is pretty stupid. I guess I gotta take that under serious advisement...
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28
    Have they ever changed the honor lineup? I got the sense it has been Crusher and Kahless since it’s inception.

    First it was Kahless, then a long time after Bev was added. At one point they'd planned to pull Kahless when they added Bev, but then decided to leave him available. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if they added another honor hall 5* at any time as it's been quite a while since Bev was added.

    EDIT: Looked up the dates. Kahless was introduced April 19, 2017 (which is when the honor hall launched) and Bev was added March 13, 2018.
  • [7TW] UnkieB[7TW] UnkieB ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyway, thanks for all the insight, guys. I have a week or so to make my decision, but it appears that pretty much everyone thinks my plan is pretty stupid. I guess I gotta take that under serious advisement...

    Nope, not stupid at all. It's all just food for thought, but you play the game in whatever way makes you happy. There are people who only collect very select crew that they like (or at least won't keep crew of characters they dislike). This often means they might be getting rid of someone who could improve their roster, but ultimately we all play the game for ourselves and each of us is a bit different.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    The you can do without them arguments comes because of how you acquire them. They cost 100k honor, and you have to decide to spend that honor for them vs something else. Any other crew you can acquire in an event or as a portal drop. Sure you can do without any crew, but if a crew drops from a premium pull you don't say, well I can do without this really good crew so I'll airlock them. For Kahless/Crusher you are deciding explicitly to buy that crew and acknowledging that you would rather have that crew over other uses for 100k honor.

    It’s one of those rare instances where you know exactly what you’re getting when you get it.

  • I’ve gotten both, and cited both to 5/5. Both are great, but I definitely use my Kahless more in gauntlet and voyages. Bev waits her turn, and gets some use, but less. Of course, I have 5/5s of Dr Katherine Pulaski; BR Bashir, the Mobile Doctor and Defensive Phlox. I’ve invested heavily into MED options for all phases of the game, so YMMV absolutely.
  • Automaton_2000Automaton_2000 ✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    The you can do without them arguments comes because of how you acquire them. They cost 100k honor, and you have to decide to spend that honor for them vs something else. Any other crew you can acquire in an event or as a portal drop. Sure you can do without any crew, but if a crew drops from a premium pull you don't say, well I can do without this really good crew so I'll airlock them. For Kahless/Crusher you are deciding explicitly to buy that crew and acknowledging that you would rather have that crew over other uses for 100k honor.

    Right, if he debuted next week in an event, people would be going nuts over his proficiency and gauntlet potential. I just don't think that argument should be the lede for an obviously great crew like Kahless. If your options for honor are between +300 stats on a crew (a 1-2% improvement on an 8 hour voyage) or a crew who performs like an elite 4/4 for voyages with proven gauntlet dominance, it's not as clear as 'eh, you can live without them'. For a new roster, you cannot buy a better boost than Kahless. Whether or not it's worth the investment years down the line is something else.
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