Colonel Q not costumed?

WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
I just had a voyage with the costumed trait. I was going to pick Colonel Q but I realized he did not have the trait.

I think this is a mistake and he should have the costumed trait.
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Comments

  • There does seem to be a little bit of inconsistency in Q's and costumes. Like why is a Q in a Starfleet uniform not a costume but Q as a Marshall of France is a costume? This is completely off of memory but the Civil War (and thus the Colonel) was the only way the Continuum could be presented in a way that Janeway could comprehend. So, for all intents and purposes, Colonel was a colonel and not just costumed as one (much like when Q appear in our universe in Starfleet uniforms, that is their natural state).

    Call it head canon or retconning but that is what makes sense to me.
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  • Q "As God" has the costumed trait, which I would argue that he shouldn't...

    Then again, if Q is such the omnipotent being, one might say that all of what we see with regards to Q is a costume, since we cannot actually fathom the true nature of the Q. (As Q himself argues with Picard so frequently.)
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  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9
    Q "As God" has the costumed trait, which I would argue that he shouldn't...

    Then again, if Q is such the omnipotent being, one might say that all of what we see with regards to Q is a costume, since we cannot actually fathom the true nature of the Q. (As Q himself argues with Picard so frequently.)

    That was in my thoughts too as I started thinking about it.
    In essence the only non costumed Q is Human Q.

    But, I am willing to except Q's in startfleet uniform as not being costumed because of the Star Trek crew not seeing it as a costume.

    But clearly then Captain Q must be seen as costumed because Star Trek crew do not perceive him as a captain.
  • Bluebeard1Bluebeard1 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've alway found it strange that the Q need any equipment at all (including costumes). After all, if one is (near) omnipotent and can craft items out of thin air, surely they don't need to be equipped.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10
    Counterargument: Colonel Q is a naturist and that's just how his body actually looks.

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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    My first thought was no but as he appears to be wearing Lt General Cavalry/General of the army stars instead of Colonel insignia.

    My vote is costumed / overcover operative.
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  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    And how about High Roller Sisko? He is wearing a tuxedo costume to pretend to be a high roller to distract everyone so the ds9 team can pull off a heist.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11
    This is more a comment about the episode itself.
    Who is the one Star Trek crew who sees the Q in civil war uniforms. Only conclusion is Janeway. Every crew member would have a different perception. And, finally there would be no reason for the crew to wear union uniforms.

    Edit: one tends to forget that everybody is not human. The reason, they all are human actors. But now not all crew are humans, yet they perceive the Q to be in US civil war uniforms. I don't think so. Another reason to realize the flaws in this episode.

    Edit: The episode does have Q make the comment that it is perception.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    I think it has more to do with competitive balance. I believe DB has said before that they compare traits so one character doesn't have too much of an advantage over others. If a character for example has a high proficiency then they don't necessarily want that character to have a lot of gauntlet traits because they will crush everyone (gauntlet characters are the exception because everyone can access them if they play regularly). It's better to release a character without a trait and add it rather than nerf a character because they are too strong.
  • edited September 11
    .
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it has more to do with competitive balance. I believe DB has said before that they compare traits so one character doesn't have too much of an advantage over others. If a character for example has a high proficiency then they don't necessarily want that character to have a lot of gauntlet traits because they will crush everyone (gauntlet characters are the exception because everyone can access them if they play regularly). It's better to release a character without a trait and add it rather than nerf a character because they are too strong.

    This is a good point, but I can't see a Gauntlet imbalance being a concern for Colonel Q. His traits are Brutal, Veteran, Interrogator, Q Continuum, three of which are common in the Gauntlet, but his stats are:

    CMD (88-199)
    DIP (46-88)
    SEC (179-367)

    I can't see giving him the Costumed trait being a big deal in Voyages, either. It just adds a 25 Antimatter bonus. So really, him not having the trait is immaterial to his game play value and is just a matter of wanting trait assignments to be well rounded.
  • *edited. Fat thumbs caused me to post in totally the wrong thread.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    I think it has more to do with competitive balance. I believe DB has said before that they compare traits so one character doesn't have too much of an advantage over others. If a character for example has a high proficiency then they don't necessarily want that character to have a lot of gauntlet traits because they will crush everyone (gauntlet characters are the exception because everyone can access them if they play regularly). It's better to release a character without a trait and add it rather than nerf a character because they are too strong.

    This is a good point, but I can't see a Gauntlet imbalance being a concern for Colonel Q. His traits are Brutal, Veteran, Interrogator, Q Continuum, three of which are common in the Gauntlet, but his stats are:

    CMD (88-199)
    DIP (46-88)
    SEC (179-367)

    I can't see giving him the Costumed trait being a big deal in Voyages, either. It just adds a 25 Antimatter bonus. So really, him not having the trait is immaterial to his game play value and is just a matter of wanting trait assignments to be well rounded.

    Proficiency was just the example as I was speaking about characters in general. We don't know what is going on in the DB back rooms when discussing each new character and how they fit in. They have a reason for adding specific skills/base and proficiency/traits to each character and omitting other characteristics and we will never know why. The important point is that it is better to add after the fact after seeing a character in use rather than nerfing something everyone is chasing (remember Polywater Yar's arena skills?).

    They could give each character 25 traits to make things well rounded but it's not realistic to do that so they pick and choose. Personally, I don't think Colonel Q should have the costumed trait. Janeway saw their battle in terms of a civil war battle so she could understand what was going on. As such, he is a soldier fighting a real battle and he is in uniform. He isn't on the holodeck pretending or dressing up for spy work. He picked a side, joined the battle and this was his uniform so Janeway could tell them apart. Maybe someone at DB thought the same thing and thus costumed was omitted. In the same way, determining traits (or other aspects of a character) can be very subjective. Conversation on the forums is great for trying to tidy up the game, but in the end of the day, a lot of character development will always be subjective.
  • Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

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  • In arguing what is costumed q versus true q, I would argue...whenever they were masquerading as someone as a deception or goof, they are "costumed". If they are just wearing something that isn't a pretense for something else, they aren't costumed. For example, Starfleet admiral q is just to irritate Picard, whereas mariachi q is to pretend to be a mariachi as well as to irritate Picard.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.

    It would be great if DB looked at the trait audit thread and accepted most of the recommendations there. My point on this thread has simply been that of all the traits, "costumed" is the most arbitrary and confused in the game. I could justify drawing the line in a lot of places as to when someone is or isn't costumed, but none of those lines come close to fitting the current list, as so many crew from the same episode in the same situation are on both sides of the line.
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  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.

    They are not involuntarily put in costume. But clothing to fit the conflict they had been put in. Combat medic Paris is in uniform representing who he is. It is not a costume to him. Nor any of them. And when they come out of control, it is now a disguise.

    I do not know why they have to wear costume or clothing to fit the holoprogram. The holoprogram can make them see anything. I know the holodeck concept is ridiculous. But, for it to be able to make people think they are actually at a location it can most certainly make people see other people in any clothing it deems appropriate for the program. When the program is not running the people would revert to their actual clothing.
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    Another point to remember is that each character could probably have 25 traits, which isn't realistic in this type of game. Characters may be costumed but the designers may have simply chosen not to give them the trait.

    For example, they may only want half the characters from the Hirogen episode on voyager to have the costumed trait. They make their choices and assign other traits as well to create a game balance.

    Some people may want all of these characters from that episode to have the costumed trait but it isn't necessary. Thus we sit and discuss our opinions (such as whether uniformed characters are costumed or not) on the forums. 🙂
  • Average GuyAverage Guy ✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.

    They are not involuntarily put in costume. But clothing to fit the conflict they had been put in. Combat medic Paris is in uniform representing who he is. It is not a costume to him. Nor any of them. And when they come out of control, it is now a disguise.

    I do not know why they have to wear costume or clothing to fit the holoprogram. The holoprogram can make them see anything. I know the holodeck concept is ridiculous. But, for it to be able to make people think they are actually at a location it can most certainly make people see other people in any clothing it deems appropriate for the program. When the program is not running the people would revert to their actual clothing.

    They have to get dressed up because the holodeck characters can tell if they are out costume or not as their clothing doesn't change. It projects images that makes you think there are changes in the surrounding area and creates hologram characters but doesn't alter what users are wearing. You need projection of images and surfaces capable of dealing with those projections for the environment around them. Their clothing isn't necessarily designed to handle the projections so they would have to wear program appropriate clothing.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.

    They are not involuntarily put in costume. But clothing to fit the conflict they had been put in. Combat medic Paris is in uniform representing who he is. It is not a costume to him. Nor any of them. And when they come out of control, it is now a disguise.

    I do not know why they have to wear costume or clothing to fit the holoprogram. The holoprogram can make them see anything. I know the holodeck concept is ridiculous. But, for it to be able to make people think they are actually at a location it can most certainly make people see other people in any clothing it deems appropriate for the program. When the program is not running the people would revert to their actual clothing.

    They have to get dressed up because the holodeck characters can tell if they are out costume or not as their clothing doesn't change. It projects images that makes you think there are changes in the surrounding area and creates hologram characters but doesn't alter what users are wearing. You need projection of images and surfaces capable of dealing with those projections for the environment around them. Their clothing isn't necessarily designed to handle the projections so they would have to wear program appropriate clothing.

    Well Voyager blows that theory out the door. Think doctor before mobile emitter.

    But, you do at least explain the holodeck. It still is nonsense, if you have crew standing shoulder to shoulder, the ones on the ends shoulder touching a corner of the holodeck. Start the program and have the crew try to spread out the line they are in to arms width, the ones on the end should not be able to move past those corners.
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    Every time I put Vosk on a Voyage, I wonder why he doesn't count as Costumed.

    He is in uniform because he joined the army and was given a rank and uniform. He isn't pretending at this point like the holodeck or covert operations. His allies may not know his motives but he is fighting with them side by side.

    If that was the reason, there are a lot of costumed crew who would have the trait eliminated. Such as, the voyager crew fighting on the holodeck who did not know they were in costume.

    They weren't aware of what they were doing, but they were dressed up by the Hirogen. Involuntarily Costumed is still Costumed.

    Is it? Mademoiselle de Neuf, GI Chakotay, and Combat Medic Paris are all "costumed", but Katrine, Bartender Tuvok, and Klingon Janeway are not.

    jdj5e9eghqxi.gif

    Okay, Involuntarily Costumed ought to be Costumed. God, I hope this week's QoL improvements include the Great Trait Audit.

    They are not involuntarily put in costume. But clothing to fit the conflict they had been put in. Combat medic Paris is in uniform representing who he is. It is not a costume to him. Nor any of them. And when they come out of control, it is now a disguise.

    I do not know why they have to wear costume or clothing to fit the holoprogram. The holoprogram can make them see anything. I know the holodeck concept is ridiculous. But, for it to be able to make people think they are actually at a location it can most certainly make people see other people in any clothing it deems appropriate for the program. When the program is not running the people would revert to their actual clothing.

    They have to get dressed up because the holodeck characters can tell if they are out costume or not as their clothing doesn't change. It projects images that makes you think there are changes in the surrounding area and creates hologram characters but doesn't alter what users are wearing. You need projection of images and surfaces capable of dealing with those projections for the environment around them. Their clothing isn't necessarily designed to handle the projections so they would have to wear program appropriate clothing.

    Well Voyager blows that theory out the door. Think doctor before mobile emitter.

    But, you do at least explain the holodeck. It still is nonsense, if you have crew standing shoulder to shoulder, the ones on the ends shoulder touching a corner of the holodeck. Start the program and have the crew try to spread out the line they are in to arms width, the ones on the end should not be able to move past those corners.

    I got that argument covered:


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  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19
    Why is Prisoner Katrina Cornwell not a "Doctor"?!?!? Not only is a practicing physician, but she actually uses her area of expertise WHILE A PRISONER to treat a PTSD patient........
    Remember that time Scott vented on the Forums?!?!?
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