What was IAmPicard?

DazlaaaaaDazlaaaaa ✭✭
edited October 10 in Ready Room
Been playing for a couple of years, but new to the forum - what was this tool all about?

I seem to have massively missed the boat somewhere!
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Comments

  • robownagerobownage ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    In a nutshell, it was a web-based tool designed for crew management that also helped players by doing calculations for Gauntlet and Voyages - eventually letting players play Gauntlet, send Voyages and complete dilemmas without entering the game, based on those calculations. Somewhere along the line, it got twisted and also let some players massively abuse the Voyage dilemma system. Once this was discovered, the designer self-imploded and took it offline.

    Twas quite the time to be on the forums. There's a YouTube video around somewhere that provided a solid summary of the facts.
  • robownage wrote: »
    In a nutshell, it was a web-based tool designed for crew management that also helped players by doing calculations for Gauntlet and Voyages - eventually letting players play Gauntlet, send Voyages and complete dilemmas without entering the game, based on those calculations. Somewhere along the line, it got twisted and also let some players massively abuse the Voyage dilemma system. Once this was discovered, the designer self-imploded and took it offline.

    Twas quite the time to be on the forums. There's a YouTube video around somewhere that provided a solid summary of the facts.

    Again, forgive the ignorant, but how can it twist the voyages system? As long as you know what leads to what, then you don't need the tool?

    Unless the tool could actually select dilemmas, I fail to see what would be worth getting in a lather over?
  • LeshyLeshy ✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    The issue was that the tool could collect voyage rewards multiple times, so that those abusing it got far more rewards from voyages than should legitimately be the case.

    I do miss the gauntlet chance calculations from the tool, they made the gauntlet so much more tolerable.
  • SvenLundgrenSvenLundgren ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    I miss the inventory management tool.. And being able to export my crew directly from the game.
    Starfleet Commission: August 12, 2017
  • the tool still exists but can only read info from the game. Its now called Iamtosk
  • eXo | SilverRoseeXo | SilverRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    Remember how you used to sometimes be able to make a claw and multitap on voyages for multiple rewards? Imagine that but with a computer program guaranteeing multiple hits - sometimes into the 20x or 30x drops. Also imagine that same computer logic being extended to shuttle claims during faction events, where players who used IamPicard were able to claim 20x or 30x shuttles right as rental tokens were introduced.

    That's the controversy about IAP in a nutshell. It was a great tool for crew/item management, but a few folks "in the know" used it to exploit faction events and voyage rewards.

    edit to include the link to the YouTube video:
    Proud Admiral of eBOXo in the 7.2 update. I want my red X back, DB.

    eXodus Fleet Wiki Page
  • Ren~Ren~ ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11
    Remember how you used to sometimes be able to make a claw and multitap on voyages for multiple rewards? Imagine that but with a computer program guaranteeing multiple hits - sometimes into the 20x or 30x drops. Also imagine that same computer logic being extended to shuttle claims during faction events, where players who used IamPicard were able to claim 20x or 30x shuttles right as rental tokens were introduced.

    That's the controversy about IAP in a nutshell. It was a great tool for crew/item management, but a few folks "in the know" used it to exploit faction events and voyage rewards.

    edit to include the link to the YouTube video:

    I watched the video some time ago and it starts with lies: the person who made it knows absolutely nothing about programming and it's really obvious. IIRC he starts by claiming it's "open source" but not free for anyone to modify when it's under GPL 3.0 so free for anyone to fork. Even amateur programmers know that. The so called "expert" goes on and claims that there's a shuttle feature the tool never had. Sadly that's the only evidence; it's full of crap and people take it as gospel, but for all I know given the level zero of technical knowledge both commenters show that was a well crafted conspiracy that fooled people and DB alike. The reason is quite clear, he's a self-proclaimed hater of the tool.

    IAP is still available out there for anyone by the way, it's under GPL 3.0 licence so as long as you have the source code you're free to compile it, modify it and use it at your own discretion. DB made no further comments and doesn't forbid such third party tools as there's no automation of any kind so in theory the terms of service give it a green light.
  • IAP is specifically against the TOS, as you are forbidden to access the servers through non DB means,
    And that's all nice and fine for a reason, but let us not forget that DB allows and sticky/promote the threads of the DataCore website that houses the Behold Bot as well as many other tools. That tool interfaces *directly* to DB because it has crew that *aren't even available in game yet* like the new Craft or new Mudd and it lists all their equipment and needs. This is gotten 100% from the game server and files and I'm certain DB isn't upset with it, considering they allow the tool.

    If DB had pulled the tool or banned it, there wouldn't be a new version of it out there and usable. This was a case of the creator being harassed and doxxed and threatened. You would do the same if it happened to you. It's a game. Don't take it so seriously.
  • FetaroFetaro ✭✭✭
    edited October 11
    > DB shut it down
    Jeez. DB didn't do anything. it was the whales who decided to harass him, because casual players could EVENTUALLY compete with them. "Look at this line of code. It is a God Mode." No, it isn't, but most people wouldn't know.

    These whales made some half-true videos showing how "cheating" IaP was. I've tried several times (more than a dozen times) to use the "exploits" these whales were describing, without any success, it was *tsk tsk* (EDIT : a lie). It was the developer who decided to cancel everything, because he was harassed by them. I can understand you didn't like IaP, but stop spreading fake news
  • AmphistaffAmphistaff ✭✭✭✭
    Fetaro wrote: »
    > DB shut it down
    Jeez. DB didn't do anything. it was the whales who decided to harass him, because casual players could EVENTUALLY compete with them. "Look at this line of code. It is a God Mode." No, it isn't, but most people wouldn't know.

    These whales made some half-true videos showing how "cheating" IaP was. I've tried several times (more than a dozen times) to use the "exploits" these whales were describing, without any success, it was *tsk tsk* (EDIT : a lie). It was the developer who decided to cancel everything, because he was harassed by them. I can understand you didn't like IaP, but stop spreading fake news

    You do not understand this game then. No amount of playing will ever let someone compete with those who spend money. You could have a million shuttle tokens and use every single one to try to win a faction event but if someone comes in and dil-boosts all their shuttles the whole time guess what, you still lost.

    When did you try to use the exploits? Some of them have been fixed from the DB end where they no longer allow multiple asynchronous calls to actually resolve. This also highlights the fallacy of "just because I can't do it MUST mean that it's a lie".

    If you want to deny proof fine, but don't pass it off as you being the only one with any reason. Take your tin foil hat and head to the delta quadrant.
  • t<G>e  Roonist<G>e Roonis ✭✭✭✭
    IAP is specifically against the TOS, as you are forbidden to access the servers through non DB means,
    And that's all nice and fine for a reason, but let us not forget that DB allows and sticky/promote the threads of the DataCore website that houses the Behold Bot as well as many other tools. That tool interfaces *directly* to DB because it has crew that *aren't even available in game yet* like the new Craft or new Mudd and it lists all their equipment and needs. This is gotten 100% from the game server and files and I'm certain DB isn't upset with it, considering they allow the tool.

    There is a pretty sizable difference between accessing a database with a general query, and accessing it with account specific info. Sure, the "database crawling" behavior could be technically against the TOS, but even in cases where people are using a dummy account ID to do it, all they could do is ban that ID. DB isn't upset because it does not directly interact with game play, and increases general game resources which improves the community. Also most of the "aren't even available in the game yet" "leaks" come from analyzing the asset call changes on client side.
    If DB had pulled the tool or banned it, there wouldn't be a new version of it out there and usable. This was a case of the creator being harassed and doxxed and threatened. You would do the same if it happened to you. It's a game. Don't take it so seriously.

    DB has next to zero control over what is available on other sites. It existing out in the greater internet is not indication of endorsement. They had previously stickied a link to it, and their endorsement that it was fine. In the middle of the debacle, they pulled that sticky and their consent. They also took gradual steps over the weeks following this incident that blocked a lot of the nefarious actions possible, but are not going to officially endorse something again because of how this went sideways on them.

    I can't speak to everything that was said to the original creator, but I do know moments before he pulled up all stakes he was directly but not in a threatening way asked about the shuttle exploit functionality and 5 minutes later he was gone. It's also easy to claim doxxing when you post a git-hub link that is widely used and puts your real name in the url, but again there could be bad actors out there that I don't personally know of.

    I also put myself out there as the opposition, and have received plenty of hate and threats, I'm still here willing to stand by what I've said, even though I quit the game due to unengaging game play issues.


    Here, I'll throw some further evidence out there for those who are skeptical since Frank isn't around anymore, and he originally reported this to DB when it happened after our show.

    kbx7dr5klj8u.png
  • t<G>e  Roonist<G>e Roonis ✭✭✭✭
    Fetaro wrote: »
    > DB shut it down
    Jeez. DB didn't do anything. it was the whales who decided to harass him, because casual players could EVENTUALLY compete with them. "Look at this line of code. It is a God Mode." No, it isn't, but most people wouldn't know.

    These whales made some half-true videos showing how "cheating" IaP was. I've tried several times (more than a dozen times) to use the "exploits" these whales were describing, without any success, it was *tsk tsk* (EDIT : a lie). It was the developer who decided to cancel everything, because he was harassed by them. I can understand you didn't like IaP, but stop spreading fake news

    You do know Frank and other "whales" were some of this guys biggest patrons right? I hadn't spent a dime on the game in over 6 months at the time of this issue, and was far from a whale before that. People more invested in the game actually liked the basic functionality of the tool more than most, and probably adopted it's honest use at an even higher rate than those who were not big spenders. The "whale jealousy" line of thought is seriously distorted from reality.

    DB has taken steps to close the vulnerabilities that IAP was attacking, I'm sure someone can find more, but trying to duplicate it after the fact is not going to result in much success at all after that door has been closed.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suppose I am considered a whale but when I am in it to win it, I tend to excel more in galaxies rather than factions because of the aforementioned planning, strategizing, and such. Galaxies are the least pay to win events and the most plan to win. The IAP cheat allowed people to get as many chronitons in a few days through cheating voyage dilemmas as I accrued in months. VIP0’s have won galaxy events so yes, it affected everyone from whales to people who never spent a dime.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Hoo-boy… any of us who were around at the time could tell where this thread was headed. Little did the OP realize what they were reaching for on the shelf.

    mifwwvgsxlmy.jpg

    Either that or the OP felt it would be amusing to revisit it. If it was an innocent inquiry then the OP had to have heard stories from somewhere
  • Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Either that or the OP felt it would be amusing to revisit it. If it was an innocent inquiry then the OP had to have heard stories from somewhere

    It was an innocent enquiry - I've seen a number of posts regarding it, both here, on the previous forum and on the wiki.

    Truth be told, I'm not really much the wiser now.

    Was it a method to cheat, somehow gathering extra cards/chrons? If so, how? Does it still happen?

    Almost wish I hadn't bothered asking...
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, here's my take. I felt it was a very handy tool, which made certain parts of the game a lot more pleasant and gave players abilities for crew management that STT really should have had in the first place, but which also apparently might have been used by a very few players to cheat, though the creator insists that wasn't his intention. I (and many others in my fleet) thought it was fantastic. I do not personally know anyone who used it for cheating, or even were aware it could be used that way, until after some people brought it up here and elsewhere, which led to its demise not long thereafter.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Prime LorQa [10F]Prime LorQa [10F] ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    So, here's my take. I felt it was a very handy tool, which made certain parts of the game a lot more pleasant and gave players abilities for crew management that STT really should have had in the first place, but which also apparently might have been used by a very few players to cheat, though the creator insists that wasn't his intention. I (and many others in my fleet) thought it was fantastic. I do not personally know anyone who used it for cheating, or even were aware it could be used that way, until after some people brought it up here and elsewhere, which led to its demise not long thereafter.

    I believe this is the best summary. It reflects my experience as well - from fleet to cheat.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dazlaaaaa wrote: »
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Either that or the OP felt it would be amusing to revisit it. If it was an innocent inquiry then the OP had to have heard stories from somewhere

    It was an innocent enquiry - I've seen a number of posts regarding it, both here, on the previous forum and on the wiki.

    Truth be told, I'm not really much the wiser now.

    Was it a method to cheat, somehow gathering extra cards/chrons? If so, how? Does it still happen?

    Almost wish I hadn't bothered asking...

    I do apologize if I came off in a negative way towards you and your asking this. Talk of this always strikes a chord with me because it affected event ranks and that’s what I live for in STT land. And I know for a fact that this cheat affected at least one of my chances for a first place finish
  • Banjo1012 wrote: »

    I do apologize if I came off in a negative way towards you and your asking this. Talk of this always strikes a chord with me because it affected event ranks and that’s what I live for in STT land. And I know for a fact that this cheat affected at least one of my chances for a first place finish

    Not at all, I just hadn't quite realised the hornet's next I was kicking over.

    I figured that there would have to be a chest involved somewhere, or super whales playing the game, in order to be taking up the event scores out there.

    I'm guessing that there are super whales, but suspect that there is still an element of cheating in the system somewhere.
  • Prime LorQa [10F]Prime LorQa [10F] ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dazlaaaaa wrote: »
    Banjo1012 wrote: »

    I do apologize if I came off in a negative way towards you and your asking this. Talk of this always strikes a chord with me because it affected event ranks and that’s what I live for in STT land. And I know for a fact that this cheat affected at least one of my chances for a first place finish

    Not at all, I just hadn't quite realised the hornet's next I was kicking over.

    I figured that there would have to be a chest involved somewhere, or super whales playing the game, in order to be taking up the event scores out there.

    I'm guessing that there are super whales, but suspect that there is still an element of cheating in the system somewhere.

    Someone innocently asked in my fleet as a result of this thread. My first reaction was, "oh no... here we go again..." Luckily everything stayed civil (but spirited!) and then we moved on. I don't know if iampicard or MJLP is the bigger controversy, but it is safe to say that both are in the top 5. :)
  • eXo | SilverRoseeXo | SilverRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can call me a mega whale. I was a big fan and patreon supporter of IAP before the fact it was being used to cheat came to light. There's another git tool called IamTosk that a lot of people like to use now. It's basically IAP scrubbed for all of the direct game interactions but still can be used to manage inventory and perform calculations. Where IAP crossed the line, imo, was allowing you to play gauntlet, replicate, and choose voyage dilemmas directly through its interface. That's what led to the exploitation.
    Proud Admiral of eBOXo in the 7.2 update. I want my red X back, DB.

    eXodus Fleet Wiki Page
  • You can call me a mega whale.

    So, I'm interested in this, and do tell me to jog on if I'm sticking my nose in beyond where it ought to go, but just how much do you spend on the game and what outcome do you get as a result?

    To be a regular top 50 finisher, say, what would one need to spend and what would the tactics be?
  • Paladin 27Paladin 27 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12
    Dazlaaaaa wrote: »
    You can call me a mega whale.

    So, I'm interested in this, and do tell me to jog on if I'm sticking my nose in beyond where it ought to go, but just how much do you spend on the game and what outcome do you get as a result?

    To be a regular top 50 finisher, say, what would one need to spend and what would the tactics be?

    As far as spending, most of mine isn't on events but crew collecting. Between Tuesday packs and event offers if you try to get every new gold it will be $150+ a week. Beyond deciding to spend $500_ on a faction event or getting Killy equivalents to reduce time on skirmishes, and the event crew for more rares the week you want to make a galaxy push spending huge amounts doesn't actually help much in events.

    This last event my main account with 2+ years of high spending can run off 4 98% shuttles. My 14 month old $0 spent account can run off 4 90-95% shuttles.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And @Paladin 27 is the man in STT land. If anyone knows what he’s talking about it’s this guy. Trust me. I’ve finished second to him about 4 or 5 times now
  • eXo | SilverRoseeXo | SilverRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    Totally agree with Paladin. I tend to spend more on events than on Tuesday crew these days, but those are solid guidelines.

    Faction event wins aren't done with rental tokens or boosts - that's pure money spent on autocompletes to do it. Boosts and rentals can help you hit top 25, but you'll probably still need to spend money for ranks 2-10.

    My VIP0 can rank top 50 in galaxy or skirmish (it has in both) because I've got ~3 years' worth of chrons and inventory. That's more effort than spend in those events.
    Proud Admiral of eBOXo in the 7.2 update. I want my red X back, DB.

    eXodus Fleet Wiki Page
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