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Ray’s Law of Ten Hour Voyages

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  • k4ie5ajd8wkf.png

    Finally made it, went on for another 20+ minutes
  • AldudeAldude ✭✭✭✭✭
    Finally made my first natural 10 hour voyage.
    CMD (Secondary) 12019
    DIP (Primary) 12958
    ENG 3143
    SEC 4793
    MED 4852
    SCI 5518

    Borg Queen 5/5
    Bartender Guinan 5/5
    Prisoner Katrina Cornwell 5/5
    Surak 5/5
    Ru'afo 5/5
    Desert Philippa Georgiou 5/5
    Tuxedo Nog 5/5
    Minuet 4/5
    Kol of House Kor 5/5
    Thrax 4/5
    Q as "God" 5/5
    Timekeeper Tenavik 5/5

    January 2020. Boom.
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    180 crew slots, All missions 3-starred, All factions honoured, All voyage crew immortalised

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  • kobakoba ✭✭✭
    This Rule is not valid

    49ejaev06ds2.jpg
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    koba wrote: »
    This Rule is not valid

    49ejaev06ds2.jpg

    Well... even though I don't ascribe to his particular method (and I've done dozens of 10-hour Voyages), to be fair, his original post said: "Sélect [sic] two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000." And you only have one other skill above 6000. The very low numbers on those three skills are what hurt you.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • edited March 2020
    elkbh0w7svu7.jpg

    Just logging in here to post my personal best at the request of my Squadron mate, RayZor, who posted this topic.

    Kahless [KDF]
  • Almost a AngelAlmost a Angel ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    RayZor wrote: »
    Greetings Capitans;

    After extensive testing, I’m ready to convert my theory to law.

    If you’d like a ten hour voyage, unassisted by re-fueling, stick to Ray’s Law. Adherence becomes much easier once you pass the 90 fully fused, fully equipped legend threshold, as ship & crew bonus is critical.

    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    Happy cruising, bon voyage,

    RayZor, Admiral of KDF (sometime recruiting)

    Theory/law Debunked.... no voyage tokens, no dilithium refill.
    So be it.🙂
    9hgjvapy2952.jpg
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    RayZor wrote: »
    Greetings Capitans;

    After extensive testing, I’m ready to convert my theory to law.

    If you’d like a ten hour voyage, unassisted by re-fueling, stick to Ray’s Law. Adherence becomes much easier once you pass the 90 fully fused, fully equipped legend threshold, as ship & crew bonus is critical.

    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    Happy cruising, bon voyage,

    RayZor, Admiral of KDF (sometime recruiting)

    Theory/law Debunked.... no voyage tokens, no dilithium refill.
    So be it.🙂
    9hgjvapy2952.jpg

    I'm interested to know what crew you used.
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have found that 2750 or better antimatter with 12K, 12K, 8K, and as near to 4 as possible for the others almost always works. Whenever I have any skill below 3K I never make it. I tried the 13, 13, 8, and forget the rest strategy and it didn't pay off. I believe it is better to have 12K than 13K in order to boost the others.
  • Hamsters2Hamsters2 ✭✭✭
    RayZor wrote: »
    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    He did not say one skill with 6K, he said two as was already pointed out.
    He also did not claim it was the only way to get 10 hours, so if you get 10 hours some other way, no need to attack this method.

    I can't confirm nor deny this particular method because I never get the all bonus crew part of the "all bonused ship and crew" requirement and tend to be 2850sih AM and not near 2925 AM.

    I will say that I appreciate RayZor and Banjo's comments in here and has helped me get better voyage times even if I can't get my AM up to RayZor's method.
  • Bylo BandBylo Band ✭✭✭✭✭
    RayZor wrote: »
    Greetings Capitans;

    After extensive testing, I’m ready to convert my theory to law.

    If you’d like a ten hour voyage, unassisted by re-fueling, stick to Ray’s Law. Adherence becomes much easier once you pass the 90 fully fused, fully equipped legend threshold, as ship & crew bonus is critical.

    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    Happy cruising, bon voyage,

    RayZor, Admiral of KDF (sometime recruiting)

    Theory/law Debunked.... no voyage tokens, no dilithium refill.
    So be it.🙂
    9hgjvapy2952.jpg

    I can see your strategy clearly, by calling it a "voyage token" instead of "voyage revival token" you can claim to not have used one and be technically correct.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hamsters2 wrote: »
    RayZor wrote: »
    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    He did not say one skill with 6K, he said two as was already pointed out.
    He also did not claim it was the only way to get 10 hours, so if you get 10 hours some other way, no need to attack this method.

    I can't confirm nor deny this particular method because I never get the all bonus crew part of the "all bonused ship and crew" requirement and tend to be 2850sih AM and not near 2925 AM.

    I will say that I appreciate RayZor and Banjo's comments in here and has helped me get better voyage times even if I can't get my AM up to RayZor's method.

    Thanks Hamster! My new guidelines I use, now that I have the crew for it, is 13k-13k-12k and the other three skills can be whatever.

  • Darth SkippyDarth Skippy ✭✭✭✭
    frankly, i'm not a noob, but I don't have the crew for 10 hour voyages; however, I think I can manage consistent 8 hour voyages, but I haven't tapped into the right configuration. Do you guys have a tabulation for consistent 8 hour voyages? I'm trying 8-8-4-4-3-3, but it's not working obviously.

    Btw, between RayZor and Banjo1012, I'll trust Banjo's results and opinion more, he's been on this forum a long, long time, and always posts reasonable, consistent, and trustworthy information; and he seems like a legit dude. RayZor needs to take his pride down about 100 points imo, but I appreciate his attempting to help us lesser beings. :p
    Hurry up before those things eat Guy!
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    frankly, i'm not a noob, but I don't have the crew for 10 hour voyages; however, I think I can manage consistent 8 hour voyages, but I haven't tapped into the right configuration. Do you guys have a tabulation for consistent 8 hour voyages? I'm trying 8-8-4-4-3-3, but it's not working obviously.

    Btw, between RayZor and Banjo1012, I'll trust Banjo's results and opinion more, he's been on this forum a long, long time, and always posts reasonable, consistent, and trustworthy information; and he seems like a legit dude. RayZor needs to take his pride down about 100 points imo, but I appreciate his attempting to help us lesser beings. :p

    I have found consistantly that anything over 8, 8, 4, 4, 4, 4 gives 8 hours.
  • Hamsters2Hamsters2 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    Banjo1012 wrote: »


    Actually it looks like this screenshot was taken well into the recall, perhaps two hours into it

    Yeah, you can add the voyage time plus recall time divided by 1.4. This one easy to keep in hours since adds up to 14 hours divided by 1.4 is 10 hours. Sometimes easier to convert to minutes, rounded 709 minute voyage time 131 minutes remaining. 840 minutes/ 1.4 = 600 mintues divided by 60 is 10 hours. Appears recalled right after did 10H dilemma.

    I believe the comment was more about making a 10 hour dilemma not using "Ray's law". Ray never claimed it was the only way, so that screen shot does not "Debunked" it.
  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    frankly, i'm not a noob, but I don't have the crew for 10 hour voyages; however, I think I can manage consistent 8 hour voyages, but I haven't tapped into the right configuration. Do you guys have a tabulation for consistent 8 hour voyages? I'm trying 8-8-4-4-3-3, but it's not working obviously.

    Btw, between RayZor and Banjo1012, I'll trust Banjo's results and opinion more, he's been on this forum a long, long time, and always posts reasonable, consistent, and trustworthy information; and he seems like a legit dude. RayZor needs to take his pride down about 100 points imo, but I appreciate his attempting to help us lesser beings. :p

    One tweak I recommend: instead of listing the four skills individually, think of them as one number - take their sum. Don't worry about one dipping too low or skewed too high. Aim to get the total to 16k, which is the sum that @DavideBooks recommends. Just don't have any higher than your main two. If you can get 8-8-6-6-2-2 or 8-8-7-4-3-2, then you have a shot of getting to that 8-hour mark. Though... I was thinking it took higher primary and secondary, like 9k or 10k.

    It's been a while, but I think my aim was 10k, 10k, and 15k for the sum of the rest.
    Forum recruiter for [10F], +FH+, and [10FA]
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  • Darth SkippyDarth Skippy ✭✭✭✭
    frankly, i'm not a noob, but I don't have the crew for 10 hour voyages; however, I think I can manage consistent 8 hour voyages, but I haven't tapped into the right configuration. Do you guys have a tabulation for consistent 8 hour voyages? I'm trying 8-8-4-4-3-3, but it's not working obviously.

    Btw, between RayZor and Banjo1012, I'll trust Banjo's results and opinion more, he's been on this forum a long, long time, and always posts reasonable, consistent, and trustworthy information; and he seems like a legit dude. RayZor needs to take his pride down about 100 points imo, but I appreciate his attempting to help us lesser beings. :p

    One tweak I recommend: instead of listing the four skills individually, think of them as one number - take their sum. Don't worry about one dipping too low or skewed too high. Aim to get the total to 16k, which is the sum that @DavideBooks recommends. Just don't have any higher than your main two. If you can get 8-8-6-6-2-2 or 8-8-7-4-3-2, then you have a shot of getting to that 8-hour mark. Though... I was thinking it took higher primary and secondary, like 9k or 10k.

    It's been a while, but I think my aim was 10k, 10k, and 15k for the sum of the rest.

    Ok. Cool. I'll try that. Thanks to you and @DavideBooks
    Hurry up before those things eat Guy!
  • RayZor wrote: »
    Greetings Capitans;

    After extensive testing, I’m ready to convert my theory to law.

    If you’d like a ten hour voyage, unassisted by re-fueling, stick to Ray’s Law. Adherence becomes much easier once you pass the 90 fully fused, fully equipped legend threshold, as ship & crew bonus is critical.

    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    Happy cruising, bon voyage,

    RayZor, Admiral of KDF (sometime recruiting)

    Theory/law Debunked.... no voyage tokens, no dilithium refill.
    So be it.🙂
    9hgjvapy2952.jpg

    I'm interested to know what crew you used.

    Secret 😅 naw, I don't remember didn't think to snapshot that.
  • Bylo Band wrote: »
    RayZor wrote: »
    Greetings Capitans;

    After extensive testing, I’m ready to convert my theory to law.

    If you’d like a ten hour voyage, unassisted by re-fueling, stick to Ray’s Law. Adherence becomes much easier once you pass the 90 fully fused, fully equipped legend threshold, as ship & crew bonus is critical.

    Using all bonused ship and crew (you can cheat a bit and still pass with luck, but you need anti-matter in excess of 2925 to be confident) do the following:

    Stock primary and secondary skills in excess of 12,000
    Sélect two other skills and get them in excess of 6,000
    The remaining two skill slots are irrelevant.

    Happy cruising, bon voyage,

    RayZor, Admiral of KDF (sometime recruiting)

    Theory/law Debunked.... no voyage tokens, no dilithium refill.
    So be it.🙂
    9hgjvapy2952.jpg

    I can see your strategy clearly, by calling it a "voyage token" instead of "voyage revival token" you can claim to not have used one and be technically correct.

    You are technically correct 🙂
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    A while back I did a lengthy bit of testing and theory crafting that ultimately led to the following rule:
    If you were to convert all your stats to points that you could assign as you pleased, the longest possible voyage without refills would come from starting with roughly 6000 points each in the gold and silver skills, and then taking all remaining points and dividing them 1/6th into gold, 1/6th into silver, and the remainder, divide among the other 4 in any way you wish, SO LONG AS no one of the skills exceeds your gold or silver skill.

    What does that mean? Well, let's say you have 45,000 points to spend. You start off putting 6k each in gold and silver, so that you get
    6000, 6000, 0, 0, 0, 0
    Now you have 33,000 points remaining. 5500 each will go into silver and gold
    11500, 11500, 0, 0, 0, 0
    And you're left with 22,000 to spend on the remaining 4. You could (theoretically) put 11,000 into 2 skills and 0 into the other 2 and get exactly the same expected run time as 5,500 in each skill.

    11500, 11500, 10500, 10500, 500, 500
    11500, 11500, 8000, 6000, 4000, 4000
    Both missions should run roughly the same amount of time.

    Now, if you REALLY want to get bogged down, the exact values to substitute in there are:
    Starting value of gold/silver skills = 2x starting antimatter
    31% of points go into gold/silver after that, 69% into the other 4.
    Gold can be 1 point higher than silver, but only 0 or 1 point difference achieve the highest run time. Anything beyond that is wasted.
    Same is true for off-star skills that are above either one.

    I have started using this approach when I have the possibility of matching all the crew & ship traits, in preparation for a long (<= 72hr) voyage. It does seem to lead to longer-than-I-expected elapsed time before recall/revive, so I am sticking with it.

    Thank you for posting your methodology, @ReginoldJudd ! 🖖
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." -- Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    With the new Jett Reno available I thought I'd share today's voyage results for those who don't have her, or any of the other top ENG/MED voyagers available (Seven, White Rabbit, Torpedo McCoy, Imprinted Archer etc.) ...

    Here's my first 10 hr voyage for ENG/MED combo without any of the above crew and not all immortalised.

    l0j6msva70bx.png

    CMD - RAF O'Brien*, Pollard
    DIP - Cornwell, Po
    SEC - Temporal Prisoner Chakotay, Twilight T'Pol
    SCI - The Caretaker, Q as "God"
    ENG - Determined Janeway, Assimilated La Forge*
    MED - Warship EMA*, Leonardo da Vinci (1/5)*.

    Ship - D'Kora Krayton*
    Starting AM - 2750; * denotes AM bonus.

    Notes:
    - ENG/MED crew I own that did not make it ... Loken (2/5), Mirror Stamets (1/5).
    - I recently immortalised T'Pol ... but Pulaski or Defensive Phlox are good replacements.
    - I like to show compositions with crew who have been widely available to all ... this one's a little light with only 5 entries (Cornwell, Po, Caretaker, Q and Janeway - though Ru'afo could replace La Forge as like for like).

    Anyway, I hope this inspires to think outside the box for your difficult voyage combos ... focusing on what you have at hand and not so much what you don't own.

    Good luck!

    ps - the only combo I'm missing for 10 hrs is SEC/MED ... but I haven't run into that voyage combo in aeons.
  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    Based on a post by @Bylo Band I decided to fiddle with some crew ...

    - I just had a 10 hr MED/CMD voyage end and was able to start up another right after with the same ship as bonus (a lvl 9 of 10 Breen Command Warship) ... but the seats had slightly different bonus traits attached to them ...

    - I tried to keep the main skill numbers close to equal and the sum of the other 4 near the same.

    Now to see if I hit 10 hrs again ...

    Below the crew used ... recalled the first voyage after 10 hrs and 7 minutes with 140 AM in the tank.

    For the second voyage I removed; The Keeper, Tenavik, Age of Sail Data, Po and replaced them with Borg La Forge, Merry Men Crusher, RAF O'Brien and Mirror Picard.

    EDIT: Second voyage at 10hrs and 7min, 240 AM (funny enough, the difference in the starting AM) ... unfortunately, both were the bottom end for both Honor and chronitons ... 580 H and 475 Ch this voyage at the above time. :(

    m2gpp9f26gs9.png
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    11 hours using the Banjo method

    zoy6fn46zkbf.png
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boom! Banjo method

    li8ttg77h8mv.png
  • Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Boom! Banjo method

    li8ttg77h8mv.png

    You just got lucky. 🤣😅🤣
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Boom! Banjo method

    li8ttg77h8mv.png

    You just got lucky. 🤣😅🤣

    Trust me I’ve had my share of early crashes and burns with this method but I’ve also had five 11 hour beauts with it too. It’s a risk that’s for sure but I built my entire roster around the Banjo method so I am committed to it

  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I typically do 12,500 or better in the primary and secondary skills. The others are usually between 4,500 and 6500 (if med isn’t a ratcheted skill, it is usually around 3500 or so). I make 10 hours almost all the time. Obviously, a healthy crew helps. As I have increased in legendaries, it has been easier to upgrade my voyage skills that aren’t targeted. I also never use 2 skill crew on a voyage as it doesn’t help skills outside of primary or secondary.

    I’ve not tried @Banjo1012 ‘s strategy before, but I plan to after seeing it here. Always nice to learn a different way of doing things.

    Edit: Added a voyage stats photo.
    mwjkrxxzkoft.png
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  • kobakoba ✭✭✭
    Okay. So I tried 2x 12000+ and 1x 9000+. 10-hours voyage success is not guaranteed, though.

    emco0ygx8cr8.jpg
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  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    koba wrote: »
    Okay. So I tried 2x 12000+ and 1x 9000+. 10-hours voyage success is not guaranteed, though.
    (Images inside)
    emco0ygx8cr8.jpg
    ru7mkwwnp2m6.jpg
    yvvt1ghgi9th.jpg
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    I am too lazy too scroll back & find @ReginoldJudd ’s original post about this math, but I have found that when I set mine up at 11500+ on gold & silver AND 5500 minimum average across the bronzes, I rarely fail to reach 10 hours. It makes for easier trait matches, too, even if that is not @Automaton_2000 ’s thing. 😉
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." -- Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
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