Home The Bridge

DB's blockchain cooperation with Forte

Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
I feel like this topic does not get a lot of attention in the "Make it so" section so please allow me to quote @~peregrine~'s post here.
For everyone who has suggested in-game trading of cards, here are a couple of press releases you might want to read:

https://www.disruptorbeam.com/blog/2019/10/28/more-power-to-the-players-disruptor-beam-and-forte-look-to-the-future

https://medium.com/forte-labs-inc/disruptor-beam-44c3b8a2724c

🖖

What do you think of it?
Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
«13

Comments

  • Ren~Ren~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I hope in game trading never comes to the game. It would destroy the game. You'd have people creating dummy accounts to farm free community rewards. Other people would create dummy accounts for multiple monthly cards. Even dummy accounts just as a holding ground for extra cards you're waiting to fuse. To be competitive you'll need to have and manage multiple dummy accounts because everyone else will be doing it. Thanks, but no thanks.

    Wild speculation before anything is announced, I love it! Why don't you trust the devs to come up with something that doesn't allow what you fear? It seems to be rather trivial to address if you think about it...
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I hope in game trading never comes to the game. It would destroy the game. You'd have people creating dummy accounts to farm free community rewards. Other people would create dummy accounts for multiple monthly cards. Even dummy accounts just as a holding ground for extra cards you're waiting to fuse. To be competitive you'll need to have and manage multiple dummy accounts because everyone else will be doing it. Thanks, but no thanks.

    In other games there are flags like "bound to account" which makes the items untradable. This could be used for freebies, event rewards and even campaign loot and all straight purchases like recent Bell Riots Jadzia.

    If only pack loot was tradable would you approve more?
    Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Call me slow, which I can be about some things, but having read the link, I’m kinda confused on exactly what it means to our gameplay. I’m getting some idea by some comments in this post but I’m still not exactly sure what they are saying could come to the game as a result of this
  • Ren~Ren~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    weren't you just complaining that the devs weren't putting a gold at 400k in the flashback event? now you want to "trust the devs"?

    can't have it both ways. you trust them or you don't

    I'm not allowed to have different opinions on two different topics? I understand you're in some pointless little crusade against me today but you can do better than that...
  • Zom[BAD] Squirrel Zom[BAD] Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    I hope in game trading will never happen. For the Same reasons as @AviTrek mentioned already.
    Fleet Vice-Admiral of [BAD] BORG ASSIMILATION DRONES - We are recruiting!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ✭✭✭✭✭
    As for in-game trading, direct trades would be untenable, but blind auctions of unwanted cards for honour in a TrekBay could be interesting.
  • Ren~Ren~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    AviTrek wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    I hope in game trading never comes to the game. It would destroy the game. You'd have people creating dummy accounts to farm free community rewards. Other people would create dummy accounts for multiple monthly cards. Even dummy accounts just as a holding ground for extra cards you're waiting to fuse. To be competitive you'll need to have and manage multiple dummy accounts because everyone else will be doing it. Thanks, but no thanks.

    In other games there are flags like "bound to account" which makes the items untradable. This could be used for freebies, event rewards and even campaign loot and all straight purchases like recent Bell Riots Jadzia.

    If only pack loot was tradable would you approve more?

    So you cash in the free packs on your second account, and then trade the cards themselves afterwards.

    Or you buy a monthly card on your second account, use that to buy packs, and then trade the cards. You now have 11.5 packs for $10 as the pack deal. And since you can keep creating more accounts you scale up even more.

    To say nothing of chinese firms farming accounts and then selling goods to players.

    I have never seen an in game economy that wasn't abused and ruined the game. I'm not inclined to trust DB to get right what major development firms have failed at before.

    Then you have not played good games before. Warframe, world of warcraft, path of exile to name a few all have robust economies with trading and limited availability in one way or another. Some of them are free to play and you can have 150 accounts if you wish. In all of these games trading lets people exchange inventory they don't want at a fair price to get what they want instead.

    You're speculating on things that don't even exist yet and trying to figure out what you have in mind made my head hurt a little because it takes exactly 30s to come up with a few ideas that solve all of your concerns such as (but not limited to) no direct player to player trades, an anonymous marketplace with fixed rules like buying only the cheapest item and banning multiple accounts played on one device. I really don't understand the urge to spread FUD like that without 1/thinking a bit more about the topic 2/ obvious lack of prior experience with other successful games 3/ no desire to look for solutions that have been existing for at least two decades.
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    And the chances of being able to get a legendary from a community reward (which is also circa a little less than once a week), let alone getting a gold like Tainer et al, that you really really want/need..... are.....

    Not to mention trade = gold for gold - no gain just an exchange.
    There can be plenty of restrictions put in place for this in any case, ranging from cool downs to having to earn trade tokens at top end thresholds try doing that for 20+ accounts.

    Really this fearmongery is a little unbecoming - instead of just raising issues, think about what might solve the possible issues also. Let us find a way to find a balance so we can improve the game.
    Activity Date 26-10-17 to present, Sqd. Ldr. Magnificent Treknicians - CURRENTLY RECRUITING! JOIN NOW.
    Coastal Trekkers [Recruiting] https://stt.wiki/wiki/Fleet_Coastal_Trekkers

    TP: RAISE YOUR STANDARDS, NOT THE GAME INTO THE GROUND

    STAY SAFE and KBO
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This all sounds like too much! I would rather things stay the way they are
  • I feel like trading, while not a terrible idea, would have to be heavily managed. By that I mean, if trading was allowed, it would have to come at a high cost for both players (along the lines of 100,000 honor to trade a legendary or something ridiculous like that), otherwise, you do get the issue of one person having 50 dummy accounts just for trades. Other variations on that theme would be 1 trade per day, week, month, has to be in your fleet, squad, a certain rank, etc. But I think trading could be done, and still be okay. But that would require DB to seriously hammer out the code details and requirements, which historically they don't have the best track record when it comes to rolling out new things. So maybe it's best that we just never have that feature.
    Drunken Dahar Masters is recruiting active players.
    PM for details.

    So long and thanks for all the fish.
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am honestly surprised that the echo is so negative. I thought most people would appreciate a way to improve their roster.

    My main experiences with ingame trades come from Magic Online on one hand and Lord of the Rings Online on the other. LotRO is not competitive, so this is no good comparison. But Magic Online is all about competition. Still trading is a core mechanism of the game, online and offline alike, and it has been working for decades.

    But I agree that it would make STT a different game. Less PTW I would expect as with enough dedication people could improve their roster in Ferengi manner. But it might turn out the other way around as well if all the fears in this thread came to life...
    Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
  • Ren~Ren~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    But I agree that it would make STT a different game. Less PTW

    Guess who is freaking out. :D
  • Hey, I'll trade you 300 x 0* holodeck programmes for 1200 holoemitters!? Anyone, Anyone? Bueller?
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, I'll trade you 300 x 0* holodeck programmes for 1200 holoemitters!? Anyone, Anyone? Bueller?

    I’ll trade 5* crew for 5* ship schematics with traits I don’t have a maxed ship with

  • Honestly, I don't see any good coming from trading crew. It's tough to speculate how it might be used. Does anyone have any ideas how it might be used besides trading crew and/or items.
    Forum recruiter for [10F], +FH+, and [STA]
    Ten Forward Loungers - Give Your Best, Get Our Best!
    Check out our website: https://wiki.tenforwardloungers.com/
    Chat with us on Discord: https://discord.gg/hg8ZRyn
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    weren't you just complaining that the devs weren't putting a gold at 400k in the flashback event? now you want to "trust the devs"?

    can't have it both ways. you trust them or you don't

    This strikes me as a non sequitar. Being disappointed or upset by Thing 1 does not inherently require forfeiting trust for Thing 2, unless Thing 1 was predicated on trust. I don't see where Replays (offering 400k 5*'s) being replaced by Flashbacks (no 400k 5*'s) was a matter of trust. DB never promised that Replay would be the only ever format for recycling events. For context, I say that as someone who has spoken up about my strong preference for Replays over Flashbacks.

    As for the OP, I dunno nothin' 'bout no Blockchain and I'm not gonna embarrass myself trying to act like I do. Nor do I care enough to research it.

    As for in-game trading, I'm apprehensive based on what other players have described from their experience with other games that have done some form of it. That said, there's no reason DB would have to implement the same mechanics and could find a way to ward off the more destructive side effects. @AviTrek raises some good points, particularly using dummy accounts to stash cards for fusing later. Altering the present crew quarter limitation would mitigate that, however, though I know DB has expressed that doing so is impractical on their end.

    tl;dr Maybe, but it'd have to be well thought out.
  • I feel like trading, while not a terrible idea, would have to be heavily managed. By that I mean, if trading was allowed, it would have to come at a high cost for both players (along the lines of 100,000 honor to trade a legendary or something ridiculous like that), otherwise, you do get the issue of one person having 50 dummy accounts just for trades. Other variations on that theme would be 1 trade per day, week, month, has to be in your fleet, squad, a certain rank, etc. But I think trading could be done, and still be okay. But that would require DB to seriously hammer out the code details and requirements, which historically they don't have the best track record when it comes to rolling out new things. So maybe it's best that we just never have that feature.

    100k to trade a legendary would seem daft on the fact of it - citations costing 50k would seem to eliminate its usefulness, except to obtain the first instance of the card, I'd guess.
  • First i would like to echo the opinion that Other sections of the forums such as “make it so” for example dont get enough attention. Most ppl browse the bridge, engineering, and starfleet coms. Unless you have 4 hours to spare other sections go ignored.

    This is a complicated subject with many opinions that differ. I can see the value in all thoughts.
    I had suggested a long time ago to add a “re-assignment room” to the starbase. After the individual re-enlist option expires, the airlocked crew would then go into the re-assignment room including every airlocked card from the 50 fleet members. Each card would also have a time limit from entry into “re-assignment room” to be purchased from other fleet members with a slightly higher honor cost than what is earned for dismissal.

    I felt this may be a decent compromise to an all out card exchange program. It would limit the exchanges to members in a fleet.

    My idea was placed in “make it so” and got a few positive responses but did not have much of an audience.

    Love this. Can we make this happen???
  • I would like it if some form of trading feature was added to the game. The possible issues that it could come with could be avoided by strongly limiting its use and tie it to in-game resources, fleet membership or even to the use of real money.
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    The main benefit of blockchain vs. a simple database is full tracability. DB could simply forbid trades with alt accounts and run reports on the blockchain. Violaters got banned. Who of us would risk their precious accounts?!
    Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    AviTrek wrote: »
    The main benefit of blockchain vs. a simple database is full tracability. DB could simply forbid trades with alt accounts and run reports on the blockchain. Violaters got banned. Who of us would risk their precious accounts?!

    The same people writing bots for skirmish and galaxy events?

    They are not blockchained, and the risk of being discovered and proven to be betrayers is probably low. But... I think that these frauds already in place cause more damage than an economy which might be abused but would likely be beneficial for everybody.

    If anyone really wants to buy campaigns on 10 accounts and trade the cards from the packs... omg... so be it. At least this generated turnover. IAmPicard's abuse brought zero income for DB.

    But I am none of those who aim for #1 in an event, and 1500 I will always be able to make. I play merely for my own enjoyment instead of mainly against others. So whether others exploit is of a lesser concern to me than improving my 1/5 situation which might cause me to quit STT alltogether. So how should trading worsen anything for me specifically?
    Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
  • cptrioscptrios ✭✭✭
    Yeah, lots of ways trading could end up being exploited, but there are also plenty of things that could be done to minimize (obviously not eliminate) that problem.

    - Limit the number of trades that can be done between the same two accounts.
    - Limit trading to within a fleet, and only between members who've been in said fleet for, say, at least 3 months. This would create less of a huge open market and more of just a solid way to help out fleetmates.
    - Establish fixed, high costs. For example: a certain crew can only be traded for a crew of equal rarity or an amount of honor worth perhaps 75% of a citation. So if I wanted someone's Legendary crew, I'd either have to give them one of mine or 37500 honor. I couldn't, for example, send my alt a Thomas Riker for a Gary Seven.

    I don't want a free-for-all crew market, but there's no reason they can't set something up that won't kill the game.
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Realistically trading will cost something in hard cash (FIAT) at the end of the day. DB will not invest development and give up on potential turnover without something in return.

    Shan was surprisingly vague on the topic given that they even created a blog entry about it which is rather rare. Why do that if there is basically nothing to share yet, not even a dedicated "yes, we will implement something"? ("...if and when the time comes...") Part of the sponsoring deal maybe?

    Info from the outside about what Ripple is trying to achieve with those 100 mio for the game industry:
    https://fortune.com/2019/03/12/ripple-forte-blockchain-games/
    Pretty sure this is no welfare project for any party involved... ;)
    Wir, die [Mirror]Tribbles haben freie Plätze zu vergeben. Kein Zwang und kein Stress, dafür aber Spaß, Discord und eine nette, hilfsbereite Gemeinschaft, incl. voll ausgebauter Starbase.
Sign In or Register to comment.