Federation Assassination

I strongly object to the references that the federation would assassinate Dukat in this week's event.

The federation would not. It goes against everything they stand for.

Section 31 would do it, and I agree that it should have been done a long time ago. But the federation would find an alternative.

(I realize this has been mentioned within another thread, but honestly, I think it's a big enough breach that it deserves its own thread.)
«1

Comments

  • edited January 10
    <snip> ~Shan
  • Have to define "federation" here. Remember, Starfleet officers conspired to assassinate Chancellor Gorkon, Starfleet officers conspired with Khan in that abomination of a JJ movie, Starfleet officers conspired with the Son'a...although the backstories were not fully shown (movies ya know), hard to believe people were not killed (assassinated?) to move those agendas along.... ;)
    Dear DB: Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.
  • ByloBand wrote: »
    That is not what is happening, this event is basically a retelling of the "Things Past" DS9 episode, and in that episode Sisko, Garak, Odo, and Dax are back in the past in the parts of Bajorans on Terok Nor during an assassination attempt on Gul Dukat.

    If you want to get upset about something, get upset that according to the event text, Dejaren is a Federation hologram, when in fact on Voyager he was an alien isomorph.

    s3jshemdr4am.jpg

    That's one thing I noticed and I was also wondering about...is this Dejaren really a non canon character that's working for Starfleet instead of........ Who did he work for again?
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    ByloBand wrote: »
    If you want to get upset about something, get upset that according to the event text, Dejaren is a Federation hologram, when in fact on Voyager he was an alien isomorph.

    This and given the character arc of Ben I don't think it is a stretch after all he planted the seed for "removing (Gowron) from office"

    And although an unwitting pawn on the assassination of Vreenak he would still be deemed a collaborator.
    Activity Date 26-10-17 to present, Sqd. Ldr. Magnificent Treknicians - CURRENTLY RECRUITING! JOIN NOW.
    Immortals Legendaries: 24
    Coastal Trekkers [Recruiting] https://stt.wiki/wiki/Fleet_Coastal_Trekkers

    DB Health Warning, prone to "Bicker"..... A LOT!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have to define "federation" here. Remember, Starfleet officers conspired to assassinate Chancellor Gorkon, Starfleet officers conspired with Khan in that abomination of a JJ movie, Starfleet officers conspired with the Son'a...although the backstories were not fully shown (movies ya know), hard to believe people were not killed (assassinated?) to move those agendas along.... ;)

    Forgot a big one.....

    IT'S A FAKE!!!!!
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    ByloBand wrote: »
    That is not what is happening, this event is basically a retelling of the "Things Past" DS9 episode, and in that episode Sisko, Garak, Odo, and Dax are back in the past in the parts of Bajorans on Terok Nor during an assassination attempt on Gul Dukat.

    If you want to get upset about something, get upset that according to the event text, Dejaren is a Federation hologram, when in fact on Voyager he was an alien isomorph.

    s3jshemdr4am.jpg

    Multiversal incursion of alternate timelines? This Dejaren is a Federation hologram? {Which would make him a Timelines Original, like the in-game Thrax.}
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amphistaff wrote: »
    You're problem is you're reading the story. It's all made up and doesn't matter anyway. Like expedition events when we used to "vote" for stuff and then nobody could be bothered to do anything with it.

    This. I think the funniest thing in the world is two or more people arguing over a movie, TV show, or two "opposing" franchises. Photon torpedoes would kill a Death 🌟 with one salvo. End of discussion.......
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amphistaff wrote: »
    You're problem is you're reading the story. It's all made up and doesn't matter anyway. Like expedition events when we used to "vote" for stuff and then nobody could be bothered to do anything with it.

    This. I think the funniest thing in the world is two or more people arguing over a movie, TV show, or two "opposing" franchises. Photon torpedoes would kill a Death 🌟 with one salvo. End of discussion.......

    My cousin once told me the doctor on House is a genius because of the way he figures things out. I told him you realize it’s a scripted television show right?

  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    At least (RDA) McGyver is real... right....right....
    Activity Date 26-10-17 to present, Sqd. Ldr. Magnificent Treknicians - CURRENTLY RECRUITING! JOIN NOW.
    Immortals Legendaries: 24
    Coastal Trekkers [Recruiting] https://stt.wiki/wiki/Fleet_Coastal_Trekkers

    DB Health Warning, prone to "Bicker"..... A LOT!
  • Me [AUS]Me [AUS] ✭✭✭
    Cool. there are still people that actually read the event texts. 😃

    I stopped doing that at least 2 years ago :).
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    Amphistaff wrote: »
    You're problem is you're reading the story. It's all made up and doesn't matter anyway. Like expedition events when we used to "vote" for stuff and then nobody could be bothered to do anything with it.

    This. I think the funniest thing in the world is two or more people arguing over a movie, TV show, or two "opposing" franchises. Photon torpedoes would kill a Death 🌟 with one salvo. End of discussion.......

    My cousin once told me the doctor on House is a genius because of the way he figures things out. I told him you realize it’s a scripted television show right?

    Usually he figures things out after almost killing the patient a dozen times......


    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    At least (RDA) McGyver is real... right....right....

    Sorry. McGyver isn't real.
    ...but Stargate is, so that's something.

    Remember in the pilot when Sam said it took them years to MacGuyver a dialing device? I fangirled hard........
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • Gene Roddenberry's Federation died with him. Just sayin..

    DS9 put all the assassination options on the table.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    ByloBand wrote: »
    If you want to get upset about something, get upset that according to the event text, Dejaren is a Federation hologram, when in fact on Voyager he was an alien isomorph.

    This and given the character arc of Ben I don't think it is a stretch after all he planted the seed for "removing (Gowron) from office"

    And although an unwitting pawn on the assassination of Vreenak he would still be deemed a collaborator.

    I'm open to buying that Captain Sisko would, given the chance at a do-over, opt to assassinate Gul Dukat. That would track. But it's something else for the Federation to back him on it, and that's literally what the shuttle missions in the event have them doing. I'm in agreement that this would be far more palatable as a Section 31 operation.

    As for Dejaren, I'd like to repeat here my observation in the event thread that we're weaponizing mental illness by using him as the assassin because of his psychopathy. As a mental healthcare advocate, that one bothers me more than the assassination. It was bad enough the original episode upheld the message that mental illness = violence, but at least then Dejaren was acting out all on his own, untreated. Here, we are actively selecting him to be used as the instrument of death because of his mental illness. That's something else entirely, and it troubles me.

    I do appreciate that Dejaren's facial expression is one of anguish, rather than malice. Kudos to the artist who made that choice. It feels especially subversive here of the event narrative. Anti-kudos to the writer(s) who made these choices.
  • Commander SinclairCommander Sinclair ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't agree with your assessment of Dejaren having a "mental illness". Sisko says he "had a malfunction", which was still true, but not 100% accurate. The original story of Dejaren says that he was a slave and essentially tortured by the Serosians for the work they made him do, and due to his isolation, he went "crazytown" just as nearly any sentient being would have. I believe that the writers of this weeks story had that in mind, and nothing to do with "mental illness"when they scripted it. I mean, yes, there can be an argument both ways, but I don't think a hologram's programming can factor mental illness as such.

    Flame away... ;)
    Expeditions are not dead – stop spreading rumours!
    I want to become a Dilionaire...
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't agree with your assessment of Dejaren having a "mental illness". Sisko says he "had a malfunction", which was still true, but not 100% accurate. The original story of Dejaren says that he was a slave and essentially tortured by the Serosians for the work they made him do, and due to his isolation, he went "crazytown" just as nearly any sentient being would have. I believe that the writers of this weeks story had that in mind, and nothing to do with "mental illness"when they scripted it. I mean, yes, there can be an argument both ways, but I don't think a hologram's programming can factor mental illness as such.

    Flame away... ;)

    I would direct you to the following text from the event:
    Federation mission: "Get Into His Head"
    "Based on Sisko's stories about Dejaren, study his psychology so that you understand his psychopathy and can program around it, using it to your advantage."

    Success text: "Despite some misgivings about the ethics of doing so, your team is able to use their new knowledge of Dejaren's psychopathy to program his murderous desires accurately."

    I don't know how much clearer what we're doing in this event could be.

    Also, I'm genuinely disappointed by "crazytown".
  • Gene Roddenberry's Federation died with him. Just sayin..

    DS9 put all the assassination options on the table.

    Actually Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country put the assassination options on the table. General Chang, Romulan Ambassador Nonclus, and Admiral Cartwright conspires to kill Gorkon. When they attempted to kill Azetbur, Colonel West (another Starfleet officer) was the triggerman.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gene Roddenberry's Federation died with him. Just sayin..

    DS9 put all the assassination options on the table.

    Actually Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country put the assassination options on the table. General Chang, Romulan Ambassador Nonclus, and Admiral Cartwright conspires to kill Gorkon. When they attempted to kill Azetbur, Colonel West (another Starfleet officer) was the triggerman.

    Not an accurate example, though. That was a conspiracy by individuals, not a sanctioned action done with official Federation/Starfleet backing.
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, @ByloBand is right: It's the matter of Dejaren's sentience that makes this problematic. If it was instead, say, Satan's Robot, the only problem would be keeping a straight face. @DScottHewitt is right that there is a distinction between members of the Federation (even top brass) conspiring and the Federation officially engaging in such an operation. Again, something that could easily have been sidestepped by using Section 31 instead.

    I would argue that Star Trek VI is not supportive of this event, but rather against it. The conspirators were explicitly identified as the bad guys. Having the Federation participate in this operation to assassinate Dukat is as antithetical as it gets. As for Sisko assassinating Gowron by proxy, I would argue that 1) he acted as an individual, not as the Federation and 2) that doesn't make it right.

    I also think it matters that this time, he's reliving an experience and going along with a Bajoran plot rather than conceiving of it himself. Assassinating someone may not be out of character for Sisko, but just going along with someone else's plot to do it is.

    And that's to say nothing of how unthinkable it is for Odo to participate in all this!
  • Sisko didn't "assassinate Gowron by proxy." He saw that Gowron was costing them the war, and he then encouraged Worf to confront Gowron. Worf followed Klingon law and challenged Gowron's leadership. While not in line with Federation principles, Gowron's removal was completly legit.

    Starfleet's sanctioning of Sisko plot to bring the Romulans into the war through subterfuge is much more problematic, and the writers wisely sidestepped the issue by having Garak assassinate Vreenak.
  • True, but the worst Worf suffered from either of them was a formal reprimand on his record.
  • eXo | das411eXo | das411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This raises another interesting question: do we think well ever get Colonel West in game? and would we have to build his paper flowchart and Klingon mask?
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    This raises another interesting question: do we think well ever get Colonel West in game? and would we have to build his paper flowchart and Klingon mask?

    I hope for all of this. I want his artwork to be with the paper flowchart and pointer. There are bridge crew possibilities with Professor Sato that intrigue me.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    This raises another interesting question: do we think well ever get Colonel West in game? and would we have to build his paper flowchart and Klingon mask?

    Colonel West as the Threshold for 4 🌟 in an Event. Assassin West as a new 3 🌟 in the Ranked Rewards.
    I tell ya what. Load the kitchen sink into Tube Two!!!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.