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"Star Trek: Picard" Season 1 Episode Discussion Thread (Expect Spoilers)

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  • It's Elnor, not Elron or Elrond. Anyways he is one of coolest as episode 4 dealt with his entry joining the crew and finally Seven showing up at the end. Loved the visuals of the classic Romulan bird of prey from the TOS era in this episode. As far as the destroyer thing we learn this is just part of Romulan belief of the apocalypse and their anti-Christ. I sense somehow that must be connected to the Borg which I am sensing a bit more leaning to maybe origins of the Borg in some way. Not sure in what way but probably won't learn any possibility of that for the first season of this show. Can't believe next week the show will reach its halfway point. I think a major cliff hanger is coming for the season 1 finale me thinks.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    VulcanDude wrote: »
    It's Elnor, not Elron or Elrond.

    Elrond, Elnor, Endor, whatever. The samurai with the pointy ears. :tongue: (Fixed my post, though.)
    Anyways he is one of coolest as episode 4 dealt with his entry joining the crew and finally Seven showing up at the end. Loved the visuals of the classic Romulan bird of prey from the TOS era in this episode. As far as the destroyer thing we learn this is just part of Romulan belief of the apocalypse and their anti-Christ. I sense somehow that must be connected to the Borg which I am sensing a bit more leaning to maybe origins of the Borg in some way. Not sure in what way but probably won't learn any possibility of that for the first season of this show. Can't believe next week the show will reach its halfway point. I think a major cliff hanger is coming for the season 1 finale me thinks.

    Yeah, the Bird of Prey was fun to see. As for the Borg, all I hope right now is that Narek was just being romcom cute with his "Borg ritual" gimmick. Normally, I would be certain about such things but these days, it seems increasingly hard to trust certain things in Star Trek.
  • For the game, perhaps DB was waiting for the this particular Bird of Prey to debut to give us that ship.

    As for EP 4, Jeri's (Seven's) introduction with the line "You owe me a ship, Picard!" was brilliant.

    I agree with most of what you are saying @Travis S McClain with regards to Elnor, but I think the main thing is time constraints for filming. I can see if given more time, we could see more of the story with Elnor & Picard in the past develop more than what we see on screen. It feels some of the aspects of this story (and several other things on Picard) is rushed.

    If you haven't watched "The Ready Room" with Wil Wheaton as the after show, he has some spot on observations. One of which is about Rios, and how you learn so much about him in the first few seconds of his appearance, without even hearing any dialogue. I think a lot of this show revolves around some of that philosophy, as again, time constraints won't allow the telling of the whole story they way really want to tell it.

    Which goes to my observation about all current Star Trek under the CBS roof (for @GhostStalker ): none of it draws on anything from the JJ-verse. NOTHING. Everything they are doing now in production of all the Star Trek shows are trying to adhere to all original Star Trek Canon like we know from GR himself. JJ's Trek is an abomination as was designed to be from the onset. JJ's hands were tied from so many aspects of Star Trek, he couldn't actually make a proper ST film for us –the fans, since he didn't have the proper licensing, so he had to make what he could. I'm definitely not a fan of those films, and I am not defending JJ, but knowing a lot of the background of what went into making those films, the whole thing was appalling.

    I'm almost sad that Picard is basically half over the first season already! Only 10 Episodes. Simply not enough...
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Forgot to mention in my Episode 4 remarks that I was also excited by Rios's music library being exclusively Klingon opera. I have two theories about that, one of which has a sub-theory.

    1 Rios was introduced to Klingon opera while serving under Worf during his brief time in Starfleet.
    2a Rios was pranked by Ezri, who in turn had been introduced to Klingon opera via Worf.
    2b Rios was pranked by Worf.

    I really hope it's 2b.

    God, wouldn't it be great to see Ezri show up on the series? I mean, obviously Worf, too (that's understood ;) ). And while we're at it, let's get Kira, Quark, and Bashir on there, as well. o:)


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • I am one of the few that liked the JJ verse but I think that alternate verse of films is over for now I think. So they will just move on to other films set in the prime. As to only thing that exists in ST: Picard is Romulus was destroyed but they said that moved on quickly in ep 1 which was basically it on that mention.

    There a lots of characters I hope make it into Picard if it makes sense. Like O'Brien he retired to teach at Starfleet Academy and is he still there? A visit to Deep Space Nine would be an awesome move to catch up with Kira, Quark and Bashir. Lastly if they are headed to Delta Quadrant at all in the future of the series I like to see what Neelix has been up to. Perhaps throw in Commander Shelby (aka surely Admiral by now) and of course Q. Oh if any luck catch up with Martock in the Klingon Empire. There so many that could pop up. Oh wait Vash is another but hard to say who could turn up.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Forgot to mention in my Episode 4 remarks that I was also excited by Rios's music library being exclusively Klingon opera. I have two theories about that, one of which has a sub-theory.

    1 Rios was introduced to Klingon opera while serving under Worf during his brief time in Starfleet.
    2a Rios was pranked by Ezri, who in turn had been introduced to Klingon opera via Worf.
    2b Rios was pranked by Worf.

    I really hope it's 2b.

    God, wouldn't it be great to see Ezri show up on the series? I mean, obviously Worf, too (that's understood ;) ). And while we're at it, let's get Kira, Quark, and Bashir on there, as well. o:)

    To be honest, I'd rather just hear Rios tell us about Ezri than for her to appear. As much as I love her and the rest of DS9, I have no interest in Picard becoming a catch-all reunion show.
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    2/20/20 | E1E05 | "Stardust City Rag"

    90vimird6tyv.jpg

    It's funny how such a straightforward episode managed to pack so many surprises. DB's selection of Lt. Commander Icheb in this week's featured crew makes bittersweet sense now. I was never invested in Icheb, so I understood the significance of his death and I can understand VOY fans who feel cheated that he was disposed of so offhandedly, but I'd be lying if I said I was affected by it.

    Didn't anticipate Maddox being found and rescued and killed by Agnes all in one episode, either. Also never occurred to me Agnes would kill Maddox, until I saw the look on her face while she eavesdropped on what he said to Picard. I feel more betrayed by that than by Icheb, but kudos to the show for managing to sneak that one by me.

    I was also wrong about Seven being in Section 31, though in hindsight I only thought that because I let my mind wander offscreen to expansion stuff. It should have been obvious from last episode's dialogue she'd be one of the Rangers. I'm not sure what to make of Seven's fate. I can see the influence of Janeway. It's easy to imagine Seven felt like a fish out of water in the Alpha Quadrant and chose to pursue a life outside Starfleet and humanity for her sense of purpose.

    I also see the influence of Janeway on Seven seeking revenge, but saving Picard and his crew first. She has a conscience, but the will to cross a line. That's very Janeway. I can understand some fans feeling her actions here were out of character, but I think if you take what we saw of her on VOY and account for twenty years of floundering in a part of space where she didn't feel at home, I can see the dots they connected. And, of course, if you accepted the implicit slash undertones of the Janeway/Seven relationship, it's also easy to see how she developed a "personal" relationship with the ruthless chick who looked like a younger Marina Sirtis. I expect websites without DB's content standards to be loaded with fan art about that by the end of the weekend.

    Still not a fan of the show's 21st (20th, really) Century dialogue, though. The body count is stacking up higher than feels comfortable, too. That just feels clichéd. At least we know Quark is still alive and providing forged references.
  • GhostStalkerGhostStalker ✭✭✭✭✭
    They did Icheb dirty.

    Hate these writers.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21
    Yeah, a very surprising episode — which, while it took me in some different directions than I was expecting (and perhaps hoping), that in itself was unexpected, and therefore, was nice to see. I have to say, though the world-building they're doing on this show is not the "comfortable" route I might have initially chosen to see, it's kind of exciting. It almost feels like Trek is getting new life breathed into it. But I'm sure it will be divisive amongst the fan base for some time to come — perhaps even more so than DIS has been, because this is taking known characters and inserting them into a universe that feels so different (although I guess Disco had Spock & Pike, so there's that).

    With DS9 and Discovery breaking the mold of the sort of utopian worlds we were used to seeing in the franchise, Picard, in my opinion, is so far melding the dystopia that those shows have been occasionally known for, with the ideals that The Great Bird set in stone many years ago. And it feels like it is more about trying to reconcile the realities of life with the dreams of what life could be.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At least we know Quark is still alive and providing forged references.

    And apparently owns a franchise now. Love the slogan: "What is yours is ours."

    9kqdqf4sa2dh.jpg


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One more thing — I loved that they used a piano piece by Scott Joplin that I've played off and on since I was a kid. First in the flashback scene at the Seven Domes, and again in the scene immediately following at Freecloud. (Although to be cynical, I suppose one reason they included it is because you can't beat 111-year-old compositions that are in the public domain. ;))



    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    One more thing — I loved that they used a piano piece by Scott Joplin that I've played off and on since I was a kid. First in the flashback scene at the Seven Domes, and again in the scene immediately following at Freecloud. (Although to be cynical, I suppose one reason they included it is because you can't beat 111-year-old compositions that are in the public domain. ;))


    I can't hear Joplin without thinking of The Sting, which I suspect was intentional given that the whole episode is about double-crosses galore. Love that damn movie!
  • You've got to wonder where was Q Junior when his ol' friend Itchy needed him
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    You've got to wonder where was Q Junior when his ol' friend Itchy needed him

    Probably doing 10-20 upstate after taking a plea deal. Punks like him only escalate.
  • NS111111NS111111 ✭✭✭
    Not sure how I feel about them murdering a character from one of the old shows in such a brutal, horrible way.
  • NS111111NS111111 ✭✭✭
    I also assume we've all seen the trailer for Episode 6 with Locutus...
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    NS111111 wrote: »
    Not sure how I feel about them murdering a character from one of the old shows in such a brutal, horrible way.

    Like I said in my earlier post, I can understand VOY fans being upset by Icheb's fate. It is cliched to kill someone just so someone else has a motivation for revenge. Jeri Ryan sells it well enough I can go along with it.
    NS111111 wrote: »
    I also assume we've all seen the trailer for Episode 6 with Locutus...

    Yes. My eyes may or may not have gone all "Gowron" at that shot.
  • NS111111NS111111 ✭✭✭
    NS111111 wrote: »
    I also assume we've all seen the trailer for Episode 6 with Locutus...

    Yes. My eyes may or may not have gone all "Gowron" at that shot.[/quote]

    Probably the most "wow" single shot in Trek in, well, ever.

    No chance it'll happen at all, but it'd be bold for the endgame of this show/Picard to be him becoming Locutus again...
  • rest in peace Icheb, you deserved better 🙏

    why did Agnes kill Maddox ? clarification please lol
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  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rest in peace Icheb, you deserved better 🙏

    why did Agnes kill Maddox ? clarification please lol

    My guess is it has something to do with her visit from the Federation Security Chief (aka Tal Shiar Chief), giving her some untrue and horrific backstory, to get her to help the Romulans in their cause, and swearing her to silence.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • Mirror CartmanMirror Cartman ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hemlock Martinis

    We have also seen the index hologram inside Starfleet records. So I'm guessing the ban does not apply to holograms.
    rest in peace Icheb, you deserved better 🙏

    why did Agnes kill Maddox ? clarification please lol

    Maddox carried on building androids after the atrocity on Mars, and the resulting ban.
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    rest in peace Icheb, you deserved better 🙏

    why did Agnes kill Maddox ? clarification please lol

    My guess is it has something to do with her visit from the Federation Security Chief (aka Tal Shiar Chief), giving her some untrue and horrific backstory, to get her to help the Romulans in their cause, and swearing her to silence.

    I think you mean Zhat Vhash (forgive my spelling)?
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  • Data1001 wrote: »
    rest in peace Icheb, you deserved better 🙏

    why did Agnes kill Maddox ? clarification please lol

    My guess is it has something to do with her visit from the Federation Security Chief (aka Tal Shiar Chief), giving her some untrue and horrific backstory, to get her to help the Romulans in their cause, and swearing her to silence.

    Agnes: Romulan Conspirator? that would be a good plot twist :smiley:
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Check out my ‘Characters’ thread on the holodeck!

    Currently XO of Patterns of Force
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    Call me Colli!
  • GhostStalkerGhostStalker ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I was Picard, after all this is done I'd have Rios drop me off on the Ba'Ku homeworld and spend a few years de-aging!
  • Travis S McClainTravis S McClain ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's clear by now that the synths destroyed the fleet at Mars in part because someone wanted to sabotage the Romulan evacuation. After killing Maddox, Agnes has become the most obvious suspect. She had the means and opportunity to implement Order 66. We just don't yet know her motive, which is surely related to her motive for killing Maddox despite their personal relationship. That it shut down the synth program suggests she either had a big enough grudge against the Romulans that she considered that a worthwhile price to pay, or she was there to sabotage the synths, too, and lucked into a 2-for-1 special.
  • My first thought was "Oh made her do it." After binge watching the series over the weekend, I suspect part of her motive is being shut out of the Daj/Soji project by Maddox. Another thought, Oh wants her to kill Soji, and she knows that Maddox would prevent that, so she killed Maddox to eliminate that risk. There is definitely something about Agnes that isn't quite right.
  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24
    The only good thing about the last episode was Seven taking revenge. Icheb was just horrible. I comforted myself by telling me that the physician's work on the former Borg is 100% illogical. If they can scan an individual for the implants, why would they search for them that way? Why wouldn't they at least sedate them (also to minimize the risk for themselves)? This makes no sense altogether.

    I was also disappointed that Seven does not seem to stay with the pack. She was (despite the cheap carnival implant she wore - was it only the bad resolution of Voyager that made it look decent?) the highlight of the show so far.

    Regarding Agnes... My theory is that the threat by the twins is real to the Romulans (maybe they know what will happen from timetravel or something like that) and Oh told Agnes enough about it to draw her on her side. Despite the Zhat Vash's unsympathetic appearance in the series I think that they have an understandable motive for what they are doing. But at the same time I am convinced that Maddox, Dahj and Soji were/are the good guys and that the whole organization hunting them is somehow misinterpreting the underlying information (which is some kind of core instrument in TV shows, misunderstandings and erronous data interpretation are totally the writer's thing).

    The conpiracy around the Mars is real, that is for sure. I am curious to see what it really is about but I expect the Zhat Vash to be involved.

    "Destoyer of all life" (or what the former Borg-lady said) reminded me of Control and made me sigh. Can't they come up with something new?

    All in all I am torn. Rios and his holographic companions are great, Raffi (btw why would Picard ever have called her like that? He only used first names on very special occasions.) is so-so and Picard is just a grumpy old man without a glance what has been going on in the galaxy in the last 13 years. I am looking forward to each new episode but in the end I am - similar to Discovery - often disappointed.
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  • As I've said before - there's no way we can have such an AI heavy plot without some form of correlation with Control in Discovery. Especially given the fact that at some point it'll be mentioned and Sarek's memories will come flooding back. There is inevitably going to be some form of crossover, even if only in refering to each other - between Picard and Discovery. Probably in season 2 of Picard (we know from the Federation flag that the Federation basically doesn't exist in Discovery, so some form of retconning of that will need to happen in either Picard/Discovery or both at some point...)
  • My first thought was "Oh made her do it." After binge watching the series over the weekend, I suspect part of her motive is being shut out of the Daj/Soji project by Maddox. Another thought, Oh wants her to kill Soji, and she knows that Maddox would prevent that, so she killed Maddox to eliminate that risk. There is definitely something about Agnes that isn't quite right.

    Yeah, Agnes never felt quite right, too naive, too easy to please. I knew when she insisted on hitching a ride and "earning her keep", she was up to no good. Could she actually be another Android? :o

    As for Icheb, I suspect (as with all good shows) there was more script left on the floor than was filmed for that backstory. I would definitely liked to have seen more, maybe some flashbacks with Seven as they were adjusting to life in the Alpha Quadrant, etc.

    I am also intrigued by [the show] traveling to the Beta Quadrant, or at least to the edge of it. Obviously there is no way they could have reached Terralysium/New Eden by this time, but could they have had contact? Not that it matters, since Discovery is still many hundreds of years in the future of Picard Universe now.
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