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Protect fleets from being usurped

There's another thread with a few ideas, but it has a different focus. I want to consolidate constructive advise for WRG here. Here's kind of my "opening bid" for protecting fleets from being usurped by outsiders.

Only if fleet admiral has been inactive for 30 days as current standard.

Admiralty may be passed to an officer who has been in the fleet for at least 60 days or any other captain who has been in the fleet for a minimum of 90 days, but only if no officer has been active in the past week.

Is this acceptable or do you have a better idea?
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  • calsnowskiercalsnowskier ✭✭✭
    My idea from the other thread...
    First, I agree that what DDM has been doing is despicable and TP should do everything humanly possible to make it right.

    But it got me thinking...

    Can we implement some kind of roll-play hostile takeover metric to the game? How about this...

    If the Admiral is inactive from the game for a certain amount of time, any existing officer (who in turn needs to have been an officer for a defined amount of time) should be able to perform a coup and take the admiralty.

    Well, what if the officers are inactive as well?

    Any player (who has been in the fleet for a certain amount of time) can promote themselves to the rank of “Petty-Officer”.

    After a certain amount of time, a Petty-Officer gets promoted to Officer. Any officer can demote any Petty-Officer to fleet member at any time.

    Think of this process as how officers advance in the Mirror Universe. It totally fits in-game.

    And the programming shouldn’t be that difficult to implement. The creation of the new “Petty-Officer” rank would probably take the most programming time.

    And if the Admiral is active, all this is moot anyway.
  • [10F] Unnar[10F] Unnar ✭✭✭
    I've played in other games where leadership passed automatically to the most senior officer when the boss was inactive for x days. If no officers were active, it just went to the player with the most time in the guild (or the highest level in some games). That seemed to work fairly well.

    And if the Admiral plans to be inactive, pass off the fleet before you go on vacation to avoid the mess in the first place.
  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    My idea from the other thread...
    First, I agree that what DDM has been doing is despicable and TP should do everything humanly possible to make it right.

    But it got me thinking...

    Can we implement some kind of roll-play hostile takeover metric to the game? How about this...

    If the Admiral is inactive from the game for a certain amount of time, any existing officer (who in turn needs to have been an officer for a defined amount of time) should be able to perform a coup and take the admiralty.

    Well, what if the officers are inactive as well?

    Any player (who has been in the fleet for a certain amount of time) can promote themselves to the rank of “Petty-Officer”.

    After a certain amount of time, a Petty-Officer gets promoted to Officer. Any officer can demote any Petty-Officer to fleet member at any time.

    Think of this process as how officers advance in the Mirror Universe. It totally fits in-game.

    And the programming shouldn’t be that difficult to implement. The creation of the new “Petty-Officer” rank would probably take the most programming time.

    And if the Admiral is active, all this is moot anyway.

    I liked this idea. I am afraid that it'll take to long to create a new rank and the criteria to achieve that rank. I think we would want something as an interim policy until yours can be implemented.
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  • eXo | SilverRoseeXo | SilverRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unnar Too wrote: »
    I've played in other games where leadership passed automatically to the most senior officer when the boss was inactive for x days. If no officers were active, it just went to the player with the most time in the guild (or the highest level in some games). That seemed to work fairly well.

    And if the Admiral plans to be inactive, pass off the fleet before you go on vacation to avoid the mess in the first place.

    I think that's the best solution. I always pass the big seat over when I'll be out of pocket for a bit, as do most other admirals that I know.
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  • calsnowskiercalsnowskier ✭✭✭
    Unnar Too wrote: »
    I've played in other games where leadership passed automatically to the most senior officer when the boss was inactive for x days. If no officers were active, it just went to the player with the most time in the guild (or the highest level in some games). That seemed to work fairly well.

    And if the Admiral plans to be inactive, pass off the fleet before you go on vacation to avoid the mess in the first place.

    I think that's the best solution. I always pass the big seat over when I'll be out of pocket for a bit, as do most other admirals that I know.

    I don’t think any amount of programming or “rules” can beat good old fashioned planning ahead.

    If the admiral is active, theoretically, this is a non issue.

    If an admiral plans on going awol and hands the reins off, this is a non issue.

    The main issue here (for the one that caused all the hubbub, at least) was an “admiral” who was inactive IN GAME, but was still in constant communication with the officers outside the game. This situation opens up a scenario for someone to take advantage. And this type of situation is what needs to be protected via rules and/or programming. My solution, which has built in programmed wait periods, solves 99% of the loophole.
  • My idea from the other thread...
    First, I agree that what DDM has been doing is despicable and TP should do everything humanly possible to make it right.

    But it got me thinking...

    Can we implement some kind of roll-play hostile takeover metric to the game? How about this...

    If the Admiral is inactive from the game for a certain amount of time, any existing officer (who in turn needs to have been an officer for a defined amount of time) should be able to perform a coup and take the admiralty.

    Well, what if the officers are inactive as well?

    Any player (who has been in the fleet for a certain amount of time) can promote themselves to the rank of “Petty-Officer”.

    After a certain amount of time, a Petty-Officer gets promoted to Officer. Any officer can demote any Petty-Officer to fleet member at any time.

    Think of this process as how officers advance in the Mirror Universe. It totally fits in-game.

    And the programming shouldn’t be that difficult to implement. The creation of the new “Petty-Officer” rank would probably take the most programming time.

    And if the Admiral is active, all this is moot anyway.

    I liked this idea. I am afraid that it'll take to long to create a new rank and the criteria to achieve that rank. I think we would want something as an interim policy until yours can be implemented.

    I think you're right, putting in a robust system, to deal with this, will take some time. However, the only reasonable interim policy, IMO, is for CS to no longer grant admiral change request; at least until TP has thoroughly addressed the issue.

    For what it's worth, this is something I have mentioned in "make it so" before. This is also something I have brought up to DB(now TP) more than once, in surveys:

    'Give officers and admirals actual power, within their fleets: Allow admirals the ability to disband squads and/or reassign squad leaders. Give admirals the ability to see what officers do within the fleet. For example, if an officer dismisses a fleetmember or changes "recommended" in the starbase, the admiral should be able to see who made what change and when. On that note, admirals should be able to grant their officers various levels of power (command). Maybe within a promotion system. An Ensign is granted access to officer chat, a Lieutenant can change what is recommended in the starbase, and Commanders have the power to remove players from the fleet. Something like that.'

    The only thing I would add to this, would be the position of a Vice (or co-) admiral. Someone who has, basically, the exact same level of power as the admiral.
  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)
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  • Mirror SanoaMirror Sanoa ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)

    I like that. If it cannot be easily implemented this or something similar should be the guideline for CS to reassign admirality manually if a change is requested.

    In no case it may go to any random guy within the fleet just because he requests it.
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  • [10F] Unnar[10F] Unnar ✭✭✭
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)

    Sounds familiar. :wink:
    I like it.
    Unnar Too wrote: »
    I've played in other games where leadership passed automatically to the most senior officer when the boss was inactive for x days. If no officers were active, it just went to the player with the most time in the guild (or the highest level in some games). That seemed to work fairly well.

  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unnar Too wrote: »
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)

    Sounds familiar. :wink:
    I like it.
    Unnar Too wrote: »
    I've played in other games where leadership passed automatically to the most senior officer when the boss was inactive for x days. If no officers were active, it just went to the player with the most time in the guild (or the highest level in some games). That seemed to work fairly well.

    Haha! Sorry... All the threads and my brain is going to mush. I normally quote or at least credit the original idea. I was just adding how your idea looked in my mind. :)
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  • [10F] Unnar[10F] Unnar ✭✭✭

    Haha! Sorry... All the threads and my brain is going to mush. I normally quote or at least credit the original idea. I was just adding how your idea looked in my mind. :)

    No worries. I'm sure I've accidentally done it myself before. :smile:
  • well for now RWO has decided we will insistute a 3 admiral apporach where we pass command every week to keep it moving and reduce the chances of someone even thinking they can exploit the inactivity loophole that has cause a few fleets to find themselves in undeserving hands by slipping in an alt and sending in a ticket to steal it from the members who have been there building it up for years in some cases
  • Zom[BAD] Squirrel Zom[BAD] Squirrel ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)

    I m not for any automatisation to transfer Admiral rank, for different reasons.

    Only thing CS needs to check when an Admiral is offline for 30+ days:

    Request to transfer leadership must come from an officer that is in the fleet for at least 30 days as well.

    Best solution:

    Create new ranks, like Co-Admiral, who has same powers as the Admiral, except he can t kick the Admiral. And if the Admiral goes inactive 30+ days, leadership can only be transferred to the Co-Admiral(assuming he is active).
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  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder about something automatic. What if something triggered when an admiral goes inactive for 30 days? Like the longest serving officer who was active in the last 5 days automatically became admiral? (Failing that, the longest serving captain active in the last 5 days.)

    I m not for any automatisation to transfer Admiral rank, for different reasons.

    Only thing CS needs to check when an Admiral is offline for 30+ days:

    Request to transfer leadership must come from an officer that is in the fleet for at least 30 days as well.

    Best solution:

    Create new ranks, like Co-Admiral, who has same powers as the Admiral, except he can t kick the Admiral. And if the Admiral goes inactive 30+ days, leadership can only be transferred to the Co-Admiral(assuming he is active).

    From a business standpoint, if they can reduce CS tickets, then the company stands to gain by automating. Would you mind elaborating upon your reasons for not automating?

    For the record, I wouldn't mind a vice admiral position who would be the next in line. I am co-admiral, sharing responsibilities for my fleet, so that would fit us well.
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  • Emperor Borg DroneEmperor Borg Drone ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11
    I think that the option of adding up to two vice-admirals would be sufficient. In most active fleets there is a small group of players who have been around for longer and do more when it comes to fleet management. Our fleet already works that way, with un-official roles.

    Vice-admirals (and admirals) could have access to a few other options in fleet management that are currently unavailable, but when it comes to the topic of this thread, it would be enough to create their role, even just as a name and badge, and change the CS rules:

    - If the admiral goes offline for more than X days (could be 30, could be 20) one of the vice-admirals can contact CS and ask to take their place. Ideally, CS could contact the other vice-admiral or an officer, if present, to make sure that this is a common decision.

    - If there are no vice-admirals, the same goes for officers.

    - If there are no active officers, every player can ask for leadership once the admiral has been offline for 30 days, same as it works now. In this case the risk of these things happening again would remain, but it's hard to imagine that a fleet with no active officers has a strong community, so it would probably be a very rare occurence.

    I think that a rule based on the time spent in the fleet, like you mentioned, would also make sense, but there might be cases where it can't be applied.
    With a vice-admiral role, the admiral and the fleet community themselves can choose who they trust to be the best option for this kind of scenario. It's not 100% safe, but I think it would be a relatively simple way to reduce the risks of fleet stealing.
    And when it comes to admirals passing leadership before they go on longer vacations, I think that most fleets already do that (or should do that) but life is unpredictable and it can always happen that an admiral disappears from an otherwise active fleet with an active community.

    (If this role was created, it would obviously be up to the admiral to promote people to vice-admiral or demote them).
  • eXo | SilverRoseeXo | SilverRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fleets are a lot of work, and the responsibility to run them is usually shared. We have two tiers of officers in both TGE and eXo. It would be nice to be able to differentiate the higher tier in game with a new role, something like this Vice Admiral that's been suggested. Even if an active Admiral were going to pass the torch due to a vacation or game break, it would probably go to someone in that Vice Admiral class anyway.
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  • In terms of something low-tech and quick to implement, I wonder how difficult would it be for the admiral of a fleet to be able to lodge a "Chain of Command" with CS? If leadership of the fleet is ever in question, CS could just send an email (or in-game message, or both) to the members on that list, and the highest captain (according to that list) to respond within a set time (a few days to a week seems reasonable) gets promoted.

    Not ideal, but it also doesn't involve the dev team at all.
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  • [IPA] Markas[IPA] Markas ✭✭✭
    Fleets are a lot of work, and the responsibility to run them is usually shared. We have two tiers of officers in both TGE and eXo. It would be nice to be able to differentiate the higher tier in game with a new role, something like this Vice Admiral that's been suggested. Even if an active Admiral were going to pass the torch due to a vacation or game break, it would probably go to someone in that Vice Admiral class anyway.

    This is very succinct. Have a "flag officer" rank that can do most of the stuff the Admiral can. Only Fleet Admirals can promote to that rank and the implication is that they are next in command if the Admiral is away for any reason, either planned or unplanned.
    Admiral of Inner Planets Alliance
  • The best thing to do would be some kind of co/rear/vice admiral position with roles that parallel the admiral, with the exception of kicking the admiral. In the event an emergency happens, 30 days is a reasonable time frame with which to wait before requesting the full admiral spot. I would think most active fleets do stay in communication throughout the fleet as far as vacations/illnesses go in the event something happens - could be in game or on plenty of the chat apps out there. Whether the actual fleet members read chats is a different issue of course.
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  • a vice admiral rank please so the admiral can default pass to an approved fleet member
  • CuttysarkCuttysark ✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    You all are still beating this stupid (in my opinion) thing to death?? Even after thread after thread has been slammed shut in your faces by Shan you still go at it?? It is amazing that Shan hasn't started booting every one of you goofballs off the forum ... totally amazing. (actually I'm a little disappointed ... LOL ;) )
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  • edited June 14
    Cuttysark wrote: »
    You all are still beating this stupid (in my opinion) thing to death?? Even after thread after thread has been slammed shut in your faces by Shan you still go at it?? It is amazing that Shan hasn't started booting every one of you goofballs off the forum ... totally amazing. (actually I'm a little disappointed ... LOL;) )

    nyip6klaaxwa.png

    This is a civilized attempt to give input to WRG. This is not about the fleet who started the issue. It is suggestions for a solution to a problem. Which Shan approved.

    Stop trying to stir trouble and troll this thread. In fact, just log off, @Cuttysark . You add nothing to the conversation. I hope you are more productive as a human being in the real world.

    some just cant help but try to detract from a real concern that alot of us want some kind of assurance from the devs will get fixed in a meaningful way
  • I think that as mentioned already in this thread, a vice admiral position with all powers/privileges of the admiral position (with the exception of not being able to boot the admiral) is the best way to go. If the admiral goes inactive for 30+ days, the roles should just auto switch.

    Theres no need to require tech support for this switch. If the admiral trusts a player to give them the VA role, then goes inactive for 30 days, in my opinion the admiral is not living up to their duties so leadership should default to whoever they had chosen. If the person they chose to trust with the VA position then performs a hostile takeover, its on the admiral for choosing a bad person to trust or on the VA for being a liar.

    TS is busy enough dealing with all sorts of other issues. I would prefer a mechanism that is more automatic and dependent upon the decisions made by fleet leadership.

    If an admiral goes inactive for 30 days and there is no VA selected, there should not be a process for TS to assign fleet leadership via request. In my opinion, TS has no real knowledge of fleet activities other than requests such as those, so lets just not let them be part of that process. Basically, if the admiral goes inactive for 30 days, and there is no VA, its on the player to either wait it out, find a new fleet or to make one of their own.
  • ShanShan admin
    A few things:

    - thank you for the suggestions made in this discussion
    - do not comment in a discussion when you have nothing to contribute, I do not know why I need to keep repeating this
    - it is not against any rule to join a fleet, and then request to be admiral of it.

    That being said, we are looking at improving our process regarding requests to become the admiral of a fleet, as it needs refining. I am still in a discussion about this.





  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shan wrote: »
    A few things:

    - thank you for the suggestions made in this discussion
    - do not comment in a discussion when you have nothing to contribute, I do not know why I need to keep repeating this
    - it is not against any rule to join a fleet, and then request to be admiral of it.

    That being said, we are looking at improving our process regarding requests to become the admiral of a fleet, as it needs refining. I am still in a discussion about this.

    Thank you for the clarification and the update! Much appreciated!

    Personally, I would like to see a temporary freeze on CS changing fleet admirals. Maybe for just this week or a couple days while solutions are discussed.
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  • Shan wrote: »
    A few things:

    - thank you for the suggestions made in this discussion
    - do not comment in a discussion when you have nothing to contribute, I do not know why I need to keep repeating this
    - it is not against any rule to join a fleet, and then request to be admiral of it.

    That being said, we are looking at improving our process regarding requests to become the admiral of a fleet, as it needs refining. I am still in a discussion about this.

    Thank you for the clarification and the update! Much appreciated!

    Personally, I would like to see a temporary freeze on CS changing fleet admirals. Maybe for just this week or a couple days while solutions are discussed.

    I think a temporary freeze on CS changing admirals is a good idea, but I think TP should put that freeze in effect indefinitely (until they add the VA position).

    I also think there should be two VAs (just in case). So, if the Adm. and 1st VA are missing, that's 60 day, total, before the 2nd VA gets the position. If the 2nd VA is gone, for another 30 days (now it's 90 total), then any player can request the Adm. position. At Which point, CS should make them an Interim Admiral for another 30 days. During which time other players can contest the new leadership.
  • Prime Lorca [10FH]Prime Lorca [10FH] ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shan wrote: »
    A few things:

    - thank you for the suggestions made in this discussion
    - do not comment in a discussion when you have nothing to contribute, I do not know why I need to keep repeating this
    - it is not against any rule to join a fleet, and then request to be admiral of it.

    That being said, we are looking at improving our process regarding requests to become the admiral of a fleet, as it needs refining. I am still in a discussion about this.

    Thank you for the clarification and the update! Much appreciated!

    Personally, I would like to see a temporary freeze on CS changing fleet admirals. Maybe for just this week or a couple days while solutions are discussed.

    I think a temporary freeze on CS changing admirals is a good idea, but I think TP should put that freeze in effect indefinitely (until they add the VA position).

    I also think there should be two VAs (just in case). So, if the Adm. and 1st VA are missing, that's 60 day, total, before the 2nd VA gets the position. If the 2nd VA is gone, for another 30 days (now it's 90 total), then any player can request the Adm. position. At Which point, CS should make them an Interim Admiral for another 30 days. During which time other players can contest the new leadership.

    You just want that second Vice Admiral spot, don't you? :p

    Seriously though, you make a solid case for this solution. :)
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  • i would like to see something like that for the security of our homes personally seems like we will have to implement our own measures for awhile yet till this does get resolved however
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