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WRG - some clarification on hoarding, please.

[CH] OsirisSonOfGeb[CH] OsirisSonOfGeb ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 23 in The Bridge
Hi,

It has been stated that hoarding is not something you expect players to do.

So that we're clear - is this the last ever honour sale?

If no clarification is coming then you can expect us to continue to hoard in hope.

Let's do this (communicate efficiently!)

Thank you.
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Comments

  • Hi,

    It has been stated that hoarding is not something you expect players to do.

    So that we're clear - is this the last ever honour sale?

    If no clarification is coming then you can expect us to continue to hoard in hope.

    Let's do this (communicate efficiently!)

    Thank you.

    I second this. I think a schedule for honor sales or at least letting us know a couple of months ahead of time would go a long way to helping us decide what to save and what to spend.
  • Yup if they don’t confirm is this is the last honor sale then I will continue to hoard. I doubt it will be though. Surely they must make a lot of money from this
  • ~peregrine~~peregrine~ ✭✭✭✭✭
    KPan [ISA] wrote: »
    AviTrek wrote: »
    Ben clarified, you can save if you want to save. But don't expect sales on a regular schedule. People shouldn't talk about, "the convergence day honor sale" the way they were previously.

    This is exactly it. Ben addressed this nicely. And honestly, I have come to agree that irregular sales are good. I am saving honor in a completely different way. I will spend half of all honor I save from here on out. I can lvl crew as I go and still have a little something set aside when a sale unexpectedly comes around.

    That's a good way to do it - I used to do the same. But my roster is now so good, and the honour sale is so good that I will continue to immitate Smaug (copyright ~peregrine~) between them.

    🐉 I approve of this message.
    "In the short run, the game defines the players. But in the long run, it's us players who define the game." -- Nicky Case, The Evolution of Trust
  • Ishmael MarxIshmael Marx ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm about to start a 3-day binge of honor depletion (starting from 1.32M, enough for 33 of the 40K offers), so maybe I'll change my tune after experiencing that, but as of now... the process of delaying roster improvements since last August has been unpleasant/unsatisfying for me. I kept not spending it because I wanted to experience a massive behold-fest at least once in my STT career, but as of now I'm anticipating doing what @KPan [ISA] described after this sale - save half, spend half. Might even put a cap on the saving part (600K perhaps?).

    FWIW, assuming I add stars to existing crew with all 33 beholds (which won't happen, of course) and use the 33 citations to improve other existing crew... I'll still only knock off 10% of the stars I need to FF everyone on my roster. Yikes.
  • KanonKanon ✭✭✭✭
    I will save ("hoard") anyway, 'cause you never know when you are really gonna need to buy something. Even with no sales, if a game breaking crew shows up on the honor hall, or is rewarded and citatons make a big difference, I want to have that honor stockpile.
  • Or give more honor for dismissed crew! A gold citation cost almost 100 times the honor you get from dismissing a gold!
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24
    I always save honor. If something worthwhile comes along, I will use some of it. It’s nice for an honor sale, if it happens, or to have the ability to add several stars to a character at once.
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy!

    Best Event Finish: #7 during Rule 125 Rerun

    972 Immortalized (Not Counting Duplicates)

    Honor Debt: Inconceivable, but maybe TP/WRG will take a personal check?

    Honor Bank Account: Soon to be zero starting on March 23rd.
  • PeetsPeets ✭✭
    They should also lower the behold cost.
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm okay with the mystery behind scheduling, but if you do make the mistake of ending honor sales, I'd like a heads up.

    Agreed on the former and the latter.
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy!

    Best Event Finish: #7 during Rule 125 Rerun

    972 Immortalized (Not Counting Duplicates)

    Honor Debt: Inconceivable, but maybe TP/WRG will take a personal check?

    Honor Bank Account: Soon to be zero starting on March 23rd.
  • Jenos IdanianJenos Idanian ✭✭✭✭
    Like others I would appreciate communication on whether or not there will be honor sales in the future, but I am peace with that it is unlikely to occur, and that when they happen will be inconsistent going forward.

    That being said, I did not enjoy hoarding honor, so I plan to do a hybrid spend/save system so I can enjoy spending some while still having a bank whenever honor sales do occur.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    I totally disagree with the consensus here. This situation does not affect me because I have tons of citations, so I don't even think about spending my honor.

    However, I have seen the mental distress it is causing my fleet mates. Some have struggled saving the honor 'indefinitely', and even though they are now being rewarded I am not sure that that stress/relief payoff is healthy. Others were unable to save and now feel regret and this will likely alter their behaviour going forward putting them into the former category. This is just messing with people psychologically. We saw how people also direct these negative feelings at the game when the honor sales are delayed for so long. A lot of the negativity here after convergence day was in part driven by sour grapes over no honor sale.

    In my view these sales are a terrible idea. They cause people to play inefficiently because they are so afraid of regret.

    If they are to continue they *should* be placed on a regular schedule so that the planning becomes strategic instead of filled with uncertainty.

    But genuinely I would prefer that they got rid of them altogether because I believe that they are unethical, and akin to psychological torture.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    They are not torture--after all, honor never expires. I am at peace whatever happens. I get rewarded for my patience if it happens. Regret never enters the picture.

    Unless I'm way off base, they are very profitable for the house as well--they have items in there for $ and there will always be whales.

    You are assuming that people play the game for an infinite time. People have left over this issue because waiting became too much.
  • =j= Zathras=j= Zathras ✭✭✭
    That's unfortunate, but I don't see a direct connection. Everyone has the choice whether to spend their honor or wait. Nobody is forced to do one or the other. I'm sorry those people left, but there are options for coping.

    It is just as likely that there are people who would leave over the end of the sales. That also would be a choice. If honor sales ended, I'd be sad--but I'd cope. My hope is that I'm correct that they wont end because the house finds them profitable.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    I totally disagree with the consensus here. This situation does not affect me because I have tons of citations, so I don't even think about spending my honor.

    However, I have seen the mental distress it is causing my fleet mates. Some have struggled saving the honor 'indefinitely', and even though they are now being rewarded I am not sure that that stress/relief payoff is healthy. Others were unable to save and now feel regret and this will likely alter their behaviour going forward putting them into the former category. This is just messing with people psychologically. We saw how people also direct these negative feelings at the game when the honor sales are delayed for so long. A lot of the negativity here after convergence day was in part driven by sour grapes over no honor sale.

    In my view these sales are a terrible idea. They cause people to play inefficiently because they are so afraid of regret.

    If they are to continue they *should* be placed on a regular schedule so that the planning becomes strategic instead of filled with uncertainty.

    But genuinely I would prefer that they got rid of them altogether because I believe that they are unethical, and akin to psychological torture.

    Respectfully, calling them unethical and comparing them to psychological torture seems like a bit of a stretch. Do you feel the same way about Black Friday/Boxing Day sales, or those like them?

    No one is forcing people to save. Spend it if you feel so negatively affected by waiting. But realise that the cost of not waiting is reduced value. The choice is yours.
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    They are not torture--after all, honor never expires. I am at peace whatever happens. I get rewarded for my patience if it happens. Regret never enters the picture.

    Unless I'm way off base, they are very profitable for the house as well--they have items in there for $ and there will always be whales.

    You are assuming that people play the game for an infinite time. People have left over this issue because waiting became too much.

    I've seen a lot of strange reasons to quit the game being used as an excuse, but honour sales legitimately might be the oddest IMO.

    For the record, if they got rid of the Honour Sales, without permanently reducing the cost of the beGolds/cites, that might be something that would cause many to quit, myself included.
    That's unfortunate, but I don't see a direct connection. Everyone has the choice whether to spend their honor or wait. Nobody is forced to do one or the other. I'm sorry those people left, but there are options for coping.

    It is just as likely that there are people who would leave over the end of the sales. That also would be a choice. If honor sales ended, I'd be sad--but I'd cope. My hope is that I'm correct that they wont end because the house finds them profitable.

    +1. I agree completely with everything you just said.
  • IceCatIceCat ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Zhatras and IceCat. The only reason the honor sales can be frustrating and annoying is that there's no fixed schedule and we never know when they will happen, so we can't plan accordingly.

    If they had a fixed schedule of, say, 3 or 4 times a year, none of those issues would exist.

    Even if they keep happening at random times, they're basically the only thing in the game that I'm still really looking forward to and I guess I'm not the only long-term player who feels that way.

    You're not. I find it a bit sad to admit that opening packs, especially those at a reduced cost/that have bonus cites, brings me more joy and satisfaction than a lot of other aspects of the game these days :/
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24
    I understand there is no set schedule over an honor sale, but knowing if one will happen does help people plan accordingly. I also wouldn’t mind the idea of lowering citation costs and skipping the sale all together.

    It concerns me that individuals are feeling significant stress over the hoarding of honor. At that point, I would classify the game an unhealthy stressor for such an individual. Those individuals may want to look into DBT or other such coping skills (if not leaving the game).

    For myself, I saved honor before such sales. In part so I could add several citations at once to a significant card, also in part based on whether or not I really liked a specific card and could cite it quickly (all things TNG for example).

    From what others have said (and still others who have paraphrased Ben), it sounds like they will happen in the future...we just will not know when. Please correct me if I am wrong on the last part.
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are recruiting and putting the “curv” in scurvy!

    Best Event Finish: #7 during Rule 125 Rerun

    972 Immortalized (Not Counting Duplicates)

    Honor Debt: Inconceivable, but maybe TP/WRG will take a personal check?

    Honor Bank Account: Soon to be zero starting on March 23rd.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    So a lot of what is going on here is that you want cheaper begolds and citations. Honestly, I am not arguing what the price should be, that seems like a separate argument. If you want cheaper stuff, that is totally reasonable.

    There are a few problems here though.
    1) Saving or spending is a stressor for many people. Essentially all of you guys have saved and so you would pass the marshmallow test. What about players who don't pass that test? This is a game, not life, they should not be punished for a lack of impulse control.
    2) Being able to save is a sign of game 'wealth', ie you don't have any immediate needs, so you can afford to save. This describes my situation perfectly. I haven't run out of legendary citations since the last sale, so I have never even been tempted to use honor. What about newer players who have immediate needs? This whole process discriminates against have nots for the sake of giving haves even more.
    3) The strategy from DBs side is to abuse a lack of player knowledge to get them to make poor decisions. Why do you so readily tolerate this behaviour? They could tell us, they just don't want to because they actively want people to make mistakes. That's not something you should be ok with.

    The whole process stinks and undermines the entire mechanic of the honor store. The longer this goes on more of the playerbase just saves for the next sale. Your whole defense is I want cheaper stuff. The game is worse for these sales, people are being made to regret their choices, and the sales strategy is basically awful. You support it because you are slightly better off. That's not cool, not cool at all.
  • ThurthoradThurthorad ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thurthorad wrote: »
    So a lot of what is going on here is that you want cheaper begolds and citations. Honestly, I am not arguing what the price should be, that seems like a separate argument. If you want cheaper stuff, that is totally reasonable.

    There are a few problems here though.
    1) Saving or spending is a stressor for many people. Essentially all of you guys have saved and so you would pass the marshmallow test. What about players who don't pass that test? This is a game, not life, they should not be punished for a lack of impulse control.
    2) Being able to save is a sign of game 'wealth', ie you don't have any immediate needs, so you can afford to save. This describes my situation perfectly. I haven't run out of legendary citations since the last sale, so I have never even been tempted to use honor. What about newer players who have immediate needs? This whole process discriminates against have nots for the sake of giving haves even more.
    3) The strategy from DBs side is to abuse a lack of player knowledge to get them to make poor decisions. Why do you so readily tolerate this behaviour? They could tell us, they just don't want to because they actively want people to make mistakes. That's not something you should be ok with.

    The whole process stinks and undermines the entire mechanic of the honor store. The longer this goes on more of the playerbase just saves for the next sale. Your whole defense is I want cheaper stuff. The game is worse for these sales, people are being made to regret their choices, and the sales strategy is basically awful. You support it because you are slightly better off. That's not cool, not cool at all.

    I don’t think it is unreasonable for players to yearn for cheaper deals. I also think that most players don’t support the honor sale because they are better off than other players. At that point, I think it’s about getting the most value for what limited currency you possess.

    Sure, so argue for a cheaper basic price. I just want the other shenanigans to go away. Cheaper stuff for some is not worth it for all.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25
    I don’t hoard honor because I don’t want to wait to improve my roster twice a year. Seems counter productive. They sell honor during these sales anyway so I stock up even though I don’t have much honor in the bank. If you think about it, they don’t like these sales and hoarding because I will by DYC’s for $25 but during honor sales I can get one cite for $10 (5 purchases), 2 for $25 (three purchases), 3.5 for $50 (two purchases), and about 6.5 for $100. They may make money off that in the short term but in the long term this saves me from buying more DYCs for more money the more I participate in this sale. Not to mention buying pack offers to get the airlock honor, those weak $10 honor offers that someone might buy. Hoarding and honor sales hurt the bottom line in the long run
  • Banjo1012 wrote: »
    I don’t hoard honor because I don’t want to wait to improve my roster twice a year. Seems counter productive. They sell honor during these sales anyway so I stock up even though I don’t have much honor in the bank. If you think about it, they don’t like these sales and hoarding because I will by DYC’s for $25 but during honor sales I can get one cite for $10 (5 purchases), 2 for $25 (three purchases), 3.5 for $50 (two purchases), and about 6.5 for $100. They may make money off that in the short term but in the long term this saves me from buying more DYCs for more money the more I participate in this sale. Not to mention buying pack offers to get the airlock honor, those weak $10 honor offers that someone might buy. Hoarding and honor sales hurt the bottom line in the long run

    Bold to assert that they are losing revenue because they aren't getting quite as much of your money as they could! I think you are correct that they are losing some potential revenue from whales (to me, anyone who would pay $25 for a single star and some equipment is truly a whaley whale if not quite a whaley whale among whales), but I don't think that is the consumer segment they are hoping to capture in the honor sale, at least not with the lower-end offers. They are hoping people like me, who are only interested in the cheapest offers in the game, will see a citation and a behold for $10 and go "yes, please, I'll take all 5!", which indeed in the last honor sale, I did (after all, it's one gold star better than the weekly LTOs for the same price). There are far more people, I would guess, in the segment that buys monthly cards and premium campaigns than there are in the group who regularly buy DYCs (and fewer still who buy thousands of dollars worth of dilithium to win faction events!) In other words: some prices are for whales, some are for skinflints, and, I suppose, they hope to make some ad revenue off of the F2P crowd. They make the most money by having offers that appeal to each group that has some willingness to spend instead of offers that appeal to only a single market segment. This doesn't mean I think they are successfully maximizing revenue - I have no idea how well they are doing! - but this is the general idea of having different kinds of offers. And I think some of the offers are so terrible that they are just there to make the other offers look more appealing by contrast, though I feel like they've had fewer of those offers of late (or I've just gotten better at ignoring them entirely).
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