Disruptor Beam: Intentionally Dishonest or Intentionally Offensive? Thanks for the answer DB!

[RotP] Scoustar[RotP] Scoustar ✭✭✭
edited November 2017 in The Bridge
Shan posted the below:

Community Rewards
As this event has a longer duration, the points needed for each Community Rewards have been increased. This will allow for more players to participate and have a chance at the those rewards.

I am confused about the last sentence. To my eye, this is DB insulting our intelligence - they believe we are too stupid to recognise that raising the Community Rewards thresholds in no way allows more players to participate, nor have a chance at the rewards.

Others think this is down to incompetence on the part of DB - that they didn't think about what they were saying, they just spammed out some random words into something resembling an explanation.

I'm hoping that someone out there can explain it to me - it's not entirely impossible that I am indeed the stupid one, and that I am missing something, perhaps a functioning brain!

The original thread containing questions about this was closed because, it seems, asking DB for clarification is against forum guidelines. But how else are we supposed to understand the.... words they use?

Also entirely for clarification, I have no comment on the increase to the thresholds. We smash them easily. This discussion is about DB's statement, and its accuracy and intent.
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Comments

  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    Write in option - an amusing statement, but so far down on my list of concerns that it barely registers.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dumb statement is dumb.

    I'm a little more concerned by the lack of solo threshold rewards over 130K. Even just slipping in 1000 Merits at 250K would be nice.
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  • Dralix wrote: »
    Write in option - an amusing statement, but so far down on my list of concerns that it barely registers.

    It's not foremost among my concerns either, but I'd still appreciate clarification. There are other threads dealing with the myriad other issues in the game.
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    Dumb statement is dumb.

    I'm a little more concerned by the lack of solo threshold rewards over 130K. Even just slipping in 1000 Merits at 250K would be nice.

    Takes more than a bit of copy-and-paste or simple database number-switching to alter the event to that extent I assume, so we can't have that for now. Maybe next year.
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  • So. I think this is really just a case of it being a very poorly worded explanation with a completely innocent intent.

    I believe the intent of that particular phrase is to convey that: The Phase 1 period has been increased by a day in order to allow more players to participate and have a chance at the community rewards, and, as such, the thresholds have been increased to account for the extra day.

    I'm all for sticking it to DB where it is due. But I'm not sure that this is deliberately misleading or them thinking that we're dumb. DB has historically not been very good at making words that clearly explain things. In my opinion, this is simply one of those times where they can't make words good.

    I'm still relatively new, so I hope you're right. But the wording is entirely different to your translation. Apologies if it came across as inflammatory, but this thread isn't about stickin' it to the man. Its purpose is for me to try to understand. If it's not deliberately misleading or insulting, it's very stupid, and extremely worrying that in an entire organisation no one can see that.
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  • So. I think this is really just a case of it being a very poorly worded explanation with a completely innocent intent.

    I believe the intent of that particular phrase is to convey that: The Phase 1 period has been increased by a day in order to allow more players to participate and have a chance at the community rewards, and, as such, the thresholds have been increased to account for the extra day.

    I'm all for sticking it to DB where it is due. But I'm not sure that this is deliberately misleading or them thinking that we're dumb. DB has historically not been very good at making words that clearly explain things. In my opinion, this is simply one of those times where they can't make words good.

    Agreed. I suspect it's down to incompetence and poor wording rather than malice. Indeed, I often wonder if a few of their employees speak English as their second language, rather than their first.
  • So. I think this is really just a case of it being a very poorly worded explanation with a completely innocent intent.

    I'm just glad, having read all of the posts on the now closed discussion, that someone is willing to say a mistake was made, rather than immediately, and somewhat harshly, accusing DB of some kind of wrong doing.*

    *NOTE- This is NOT an attempt to re-kindle that negativity or call out any individual player or forum poster.

  • You can't be sayin bad things about DB in here. They don't like it.
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  • Seems the "DB kinda messed up" line is sticking. Which is great. But if they made a genuine mistake, or they have no one in their office gifted at basic communication, I reckon it wouldn't be too much of a reach for one of their staff to head back to their forums and either post a retraction or clarification.

    Locking threads, making no comment and ignoring comments all points towards malicious intent over accident. People who make mistakes say sorry, scumbags who try to mislead or insult don't.

    Again I'm not bashing, or stating, just pondering.
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  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Takes more than a bit of copy-and-paste or simple database number-switching to alter the event to that extent I assume, so we can't have that for now. Maybe next year.

    I don't disagree with that but Galaxy events have been running high for awhile now. An update is overdue.
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  • it wouldn't be too much of a reach for one of their staff to head back to their forums and either post a retraction or clarification.

    Locking threads, making no comment and ignoring comments all points towards malicious intent over accident. People who make mistakes say sorry, scumbags who try to mislead or insult don't.

    In their defense, it is very standard practice for a company to not comment on these types of controversies until an "official response" can be issued. The last thing you want is to make things worse by having Johnny Low Level Employee making a statement and the community running with it that the company later has to walk back. It's unfortunate, but it is understandable. The problem here is, that "official response" never comes.


    "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination."
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    Takes more than a bit of copy-and-paste or simple database number-switching to alter the event to that extent I assume, so we can't have that for now. Maybe next year.

    I don't disagree with that but Galaxy events have been running high for awhile now. An update is overdue.

    They could even do:

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    Scott

    Remember that time Scott vented on the Forums?!?!?
  • It seems like people are taking 'participate' to mean 'qualify'. Yes, if you assume it means 'clock in the bare minimum recipe to collect rewards' then it interprets poorly. If you take 'participate' to mean 'contribute', as in some people are also concerned with helping earn the rewards, then its mostly valid.

    'have a chance at the rewards' does still seem a little weird, but remember that when they set these goals they are aiming in their minds for challenging but achievable. The fact that we don't think them as all that challenging is not entirely a reflection of DB.

    Also, its being taken somewhat out of context when read by itself. The first sentence says directly that the points were increased because the event is longer. They aren't trying to convince us that the only reason they raised the points is to allow more participation, they tell you they raised the bar because there is more time to complete the task.
  • I'm sure they didn't mean this to be offensive. Just like they didn't mean to be offensive by including Dancing Uhura in that pack. My issue is that when we bring things like this up we get the standard "Sorry, I'll let the team know" and that's the end of it. Move on to the next mistake. As far as we know "the team" is a paper shredder.

    Absolutely no disrespect to Shan, I'm fully aware she's just the messenger, but this happens far too often and the more and more it happens without being addressed the worse the next one is. DB can't keep doing this week after week and not expect people to get upset. They can't just keep hiding behind the "community guidelines" and not address these issues or there won't be a community left to ignore.

    That being said, this may be merely rhetorical, but that brings the following question. How can we raise concerns more constructively? And in a way that will bring a reasonable response?

    It must be difficult to 'thicken up your skin' and respond positively to an angry mob of posters who insist upon trashing the company that pays your bills...
  • [RotP] Scoustar[RotP] Scoustar ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    The last thing you want is to make things worse by having Johnny Low Level Employee making a statement and the community running with it that the company later has to walk back.

    So who made the original statement if not Johnny? :lol:
    It's unfortunate, but it is understandable. The problem here is, that "official response" never comes.

    And that's inexcusable and the biggest cause of the vitriol; DB are causing the problems then demanding no one discusses them.

    I've been involved in an online game before where the company made their own forum purely to censor any comment that was anything less than 100% supportive. That was another CBS-franchised game. Did DB make these forums to follow suit?
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  • DralixDralix ✭✭✭✭✭
    DB are causing the problems then demanding no one discusses them.

    This is not true. You can discuss problems all you want within the boundaries of the community guidelines.
  • To be fair, the rewards needed complete review, not only threshold ones. Player base have increased etc, they just don't make sense anymore.

    I don't think they communicated the change out of malice but were naive and innocent about it. As someone else posted, i also get the impresión English isn't their first language.

    I can understand the other thread being closed down because it was not particularly productive anymore.

    I'm posting again in here hoping a few things:

    1. Don't stop at reviewing the threshold rewards, revirew the whole system, maybe it's time to make a percentage based system?
    2. I know it's not Shans fault and I hope she doesn't take these posts personally.
    3. I do hope that when Shan says the feedback will go upwards it does, and that someone actually will listen. Oh, and actually react of course.



  • Indeed I hope they haven't followed suit to the Censorship Shop, but no response when they have seen the comments is... laziness at best, ignorance at worst?

    At the very least it doesn't stop this kind of concern. It fuels it.

    There is only negativity when customers are treated with total disdain. Hopefully Db will take this instance as the last and at least try to communicate better in future.
    Dralix wrote: »
    This is not true. You can discuss problems all you want within the boundaries of the community guidelines.

    Fair point, I was heavy-handed, they only locked one thread that did contain personal insults, however warranted the posters may have felt they were.

    Still don't think Shan DB should ignore the real concerns and use guidelines as a place to hide.
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  • I now see how bad the real lack of communication really is. I was being clouded by getting upset with the negative posts... I just hope DB is better at seeing past that than I, and works to correct problems with the game.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morn wrote: »
    To be fair, the rewards needed complete review, not only threshold ones. Player base have increased etc, they just don't make sense anymore.

    I don't think they communicated the change out of malice but were naive and innocent about it. As someone else posted, i also get the impresión English isn't their first language.

    I can understand the other thread being closed down because it was not particularly productive anymore.

    I'm posting again in here hoping a few things:

    1. Don't stop at reviewing the threshold rewards, revirew the whole system, maybe it's time to make a percentage based system?
    2. I know it's not Shans fault and I hope she doesn't take these posts personally.
    3. I do hope that when Shan says the feedback will go upwards it does, and that someone actually will listen. Oh, and actually react of course.



    That point cannot be emphasized enough. Shan is just the messenger. Most everything comes from higher up the food chain. Let's not attack Shan because of decisions made other places, please.



    Scott

    Remember that time Scott vented on the Forums?!?!?
  • Morn wrote: »
    To be fair, the rewards needed complete review, not only threshold ones. Player base have increased etc, they just don't make sense anymore.

    I don't think they communicated the change out of malice but were naive and innocent about it. As someone else posted, i also get the impresión English isn't their first language.

    I can understand the other thread being closed down because it was not particularly productive anymore.

    I'm posting again in here hoping a few things:

    1. Don't stop at reviewing the threshold rewards, revirew the whole system, maybe it's time to make a percentage based system?
    2. I know it's not Shans fault and I hope she doesn't take these posts personally.
    3. I do hope that when Shan says the feedback will go upwards it does, and that someone actually will listen. Oh, and actually react of course.



    That point cannot be emphasized enough. Shan is just the messenger. Most everything comes from higher up the food chain. Let's not attack Shan because of decisions made other places, please.



    Scott

    I am 100 % on board with this! @Shan All jokes aside we really do know that none of this is on you. I'd like to take a second and apologize for the fact that you always get hit with the grumbling.
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  • That point cannot be emphasized enough. Shan is just the messenger. Most everything comes from higher up the food chain. Let's not attack Shan because of decisions made other places, please.

    Scott

    I fully agree. This discussion is not about an individual taking flack, or anyone pointing fingers, it's about Disruptor Beam's intent towards players.

    Perhaps I can put my feelings into a succinct statement...

    The message* is either a show of incompetent communication for which DB need to apologise, or an insult to the player base for which they won't apologise.

    *posted by Shan, so I assume it's why she takes the hit
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  • While the statement was surely written, I agree with silverrose on the intended purpose.

    While it would be good to have a more active feedback culture with DB, I have the feeling many players cannot differentiate between their interest and the general player base / others players interests.

    Galaxies are bad because they cost you chrons you need otherwise? Its a free 4*+ for a player starting the game this weekend. My first event was an oldskool expedition. Dead end after 4 basic missions on each ticket. --> so galaxies might be awesome?

    Trainers are an issue for you? I have been playing over 12 months and have 4 shuttles. I laugh at trainers. Are they an issue or not?

    When they changed Event rewards from 7 4* copies to 4 + 3 some lost some gained.

    What is fair for a Customer base spending between 0 to multiple 100€ per week? And what is a long-term strategie to hold old payers nur also gain new?

    It is a lot more complicated than just taking the Forums and the "loudest" feedback and just implement it. Especially as there are conflicting voices here in almost ans Topic.

    Personally i only have good experiences with support and the Fun + free stuff this game gives out.
  • Strange that this is one of those topics that doesn't move to the top of page when there's a new post. it just keeps moving down so it will eventually disappear. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
  • Skizzy wrote: »
    Strange that this is one of those topics that doesn't move to the top of page when there's a new post. it just keeps moving down so it will eventually disappear. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

    Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but... :lol:
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  • It actually is slipping away peacefully, exactly as a dishonest, immoral organisation would want it to.

    Oh well, thanks everyone who tried to convince me DB aren't perfidious, insidious, nefarious ingrates.
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  • Before the event thread got closed, I pointed out that the message DB may have been trying to get across was that the phase 1 extension was in-part based on the anticipation that many Americans would play STT on a de minimus basis over the TG holiday, or not at all, and that the extra time gives them a better chance to play for a bit and collect the community rewards. Of course, the increased thresholds kind of undermine this argument, and really, if there are still reward thresholds to reach, that incentivizes more spending on the part of the people who *are* playing. On net, it still seems pretty crummy.
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