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To All You Discovery Haters Out There...

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  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    I've been subscribed to CraveTV pretty much since it came out. Actually now that you mention it I do think that's where I watched Discovery when I was still watching it.
  • RogueAngylRogueAngyl ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Call me a pragmatist, but I'm not going to space characters just because DSC doesn't rank high with me. Once in a blue moon I'll purchase a special pack or some extra dilithium, but I've been playing since shortly after launch and have only just reached VIP 12, so I'll take good characters when I can get them.

    That being said, the more DSC goes on, the more I cringe. If I suspend my belief this is supposed to be Trek for a minute, I really like it. It feels very Battlestar Galactica to me (and I say that stylistically, not just because the spore drive resembles BSG FTL). The prequel aspect just complicates the F out of things for me, because I'm one of those detail geeks that gets giddy when I hear a sound effect they used in TNG, but curses the name of Gersha Phillips first for designing ill-fitting jumpsuits (for the timeline, not the actual fit) that eerily resemble the henchmen uniforms from the Russian superhero film "Guardians" and second leaving out my misogynistically favorite part of mirror universe episodes. I lost my STUFF when they showed the schematic of the supposed USS Defiant, after 40 years of the Constitution class being represented the same way on television.

    So as far as this game goes, if I happen across DSC characters I'll hang on to them, if only to work towards immortalizing achievements, but I'm in no rush to accumulate not-alternative alternative timeline mirror universe cylon characters.
    My 8-Point STT Strategy:

    1. Voyage.
    2. Have fun. If something isn't fun, don't do it.
    3. Only pursue characters I care about.
    4. Contribute to the fleet.
    5. No more spending beyond monthly cards.
    6. Have fun.
    7. Voyage.
    8. Have fun!
  • YateballYateball ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Clanof wrote: »
    Wait there are certain cable providers that don't have it? Isn't it on Space? Which every cable provider carries?

    Bell only. They did a deal with CBS for exclusive rights in Canada.

    I don't have Bell (Have Cogeco so not even satellite) and get the new episodes on Space every Sunday so I'm not sure what this info is about
  • edited January 2018
    Yateball wrote: »
    Clanof wrote: »
    Wait there are certain cable providers that don't have it? Isn't it on Space? Which every cable provider carries?

    Bell only. They did a deal with CBS for exclusive rights in Canada.

    I don't have Bell (Have Cogeco so not even satellite) and get the new episodes on Space every Sunday so I'm not sure what this info is about

    It's about the original deal announced and the press release from the Bell marketing department before the show even aired. Whether it's changed or not I couldn't care. Also, Space is Bell.
  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    I got Space when I lived in Alberta and was on Telus. So it seems like everybody gets Space.
  • Bell owns Space, Crave and CTV. If you're with Rogers or a third party ISP and Netflix only...

    But I'm not missing out on anything. For so many reasons, the show is just not my cup of tea.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bell owns Space, Crave and CTV. If you're with Rogers or a third party ISP and Netflix only...

    Then you pay the $8 CAD a month for Crave (I'm not with Bell or Rogers). Its fine-ish. They have a good selection of titles worth paying for. Netflix's web player is more robust with better picture quality. I should probably just pay for only one at any given time but I irrationally switch from one to the other after finishing a series. Watched Ray Donovan on Crave, switch to Netflix for Black Mirror, back to Crave for Deadwood, etc, etc.

    I'm very smart with my money. I still willingly give DB money as proof of that.
    VIP 10 - 215 Crew Slots - 495 Immortals
  • Yes, you could. But why would I. Especially when my point was "exclusives exclude". The fact that the rest of the world gets it free on Netflix but here in North America, we have to pay for yet another service, regardless of the cost, is one of the reasons I don't like the show. It's that simple.
  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    I've been paying for CraveTV since long before Discovery came out. I use it more than I use Netflix, there's a ton of great series on there.
  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    No one gets it for free on Netflix. Almost everyone pays to watch it on Netflix. The question is how much value does Netflix provide to you in your native country?

    Here in Canada, there's a competing streaming service. The competing streaming service has a good selection of shows and movies to watch and is cheeper on top of that. There's nothing stopping you from dropping Netflix tomorrow and then binging on Crave for the next 6 months. I still like Netflix but its selection of material is dwindling for me and Netflix Canada does a weak job of keeping up with new seasons (where the hell is Better Call Saul Season 3?!?!?).

    American's gripe about Discovery is not just because of its exclusive nature but also because you're paying $10 US/month for a limited selection of TV shows. CBS may as will put up a big "Just Pirate It" sign.
    VIP 10 - 215 Crew Slots - 495 Immortals
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    No one gets it for free on Netflix. Almost everyone pays to watch it on Netflix. The question is how much value does Netflix provide to you in your native country?

    When people say things like they get it free on Netflix it means they already have and use Netflix. They are not paying anything extra to have Discovery so yeah I would say it’s free and be very confident that it’s a true statement. Star Trek Timelines was free. The phone was bought, the monthly bill is paid, but gosh diddly darnit the game is free.

  • IvanstoneIvanstone ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    No one gets it for free on Netflix. Almost everyone pays to watch it on Netflix. The question is how much value does Netflix provide to you in your native country?

    When people say things like they get it free on Netflix it means they already have and use Netflix. They are not paying anything extra to have Discovery so yeah I would say it’s free and be very confident that it’s a true statement. Star Trek Timelines was free. The phone was bought, the monthly bill is paid, but gosh diddly darnit the game is free.

    They're paying extra if Discovery becomes the only thing they're watching.

    I agree with your sentiment but it still relies heavily on Netflix providing good value for your money. That's not a guarantee, especially if you live in Canada. Netflix Canada used to be great but now they rely heavily on original content with some licensed content. Its not as good a deal as it used to be.

    I pay for both Netflix and Crave mainly because both provide a lot of shows that I haven't seen. Discovery is the reason I started on the latter but it wasn't the only reason. It would be preferable just to have one streaming service but unfortunately that's unlikely to happen. At least I'm not stuck with CBS All Access.

    Weirdly both offer all of the other Trek shows but neither offer the movies. That's more annoying than having to pay for two streaming services.
    VIP 10 - 215 Crew Slots - 495 Immortals
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    Ivanstone wrote: »
    No one gets it for free on Netflix. Almost everyone pays to watch it on Netflix. The question is how much value does Netflix provide to you in your native country?

    When people say things like they get it free on Netflix it means they already have and use Netflix. They are not paying anything extra to have Discovery so yeah I would say it’s free and be very confident that it’s a true statement. Star Trek Timelines was free. The phone was bought, the monthly bill is paid, but gosh diddly darnit the game is free.

    They're paying extra if Discovery becomes the only thing they're watching.

    I agree with your sentiment but it still relies heavily on Netflix providing good value for your money. That's not a guarantee, especially if you live in Canada. Netflix Canada used to be great but now they rely heavily on original content with some licensed content. Its not as good a deal as it used to be.

    I pay for both Netflix and Crave mainly because both provide a lot of shows that I haven't seen. Discovery is the reason I started on the latter but it wasn't the only reason. It would be preferable just to have one streaming service but unfortunately that's unlikely to happen. At least I'm not stuck with CBS All Access.

    Weirdly both offer all of the other Trek shows but neither offer the movies. That's more annoying than having to pay for two streaming services.

    I have to pay for CBS all Access and yes I am annoyed by it. Discovery is so by far the only thing I would ever consider watching on it so yes I full on pay $10 a month to watch Discovery. Since after this half season it won’t be on again until at least a year I will cancel that subscription once I watch the last episode and re-new whenever it comes back.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    1) I’m not paying for CBS All-Access. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime, which provide vastly more value to me. Discovery by itself is not worth the price of admission and I'm not one of the people who spends $100 a week on pixels (monthly card and very infrequent piles or offers).

    2) Space Orcs. They’ve been discussed a *lot* in this thread and others so I don’t need to go into too much detail. Some will say, “but what about the changes from TOS to TNG/DS9???” It was a positive change, from a source of relatively one-dimensional plug-in villains to a society conflicted by honor, the desire to fight, and the need to find a place in the galaxy that didn’t result in their destruction. Now they are religious zealots that do not look, sound, or act like Klingons in any sense of the term.

    3) Spore drive. Even in a universe chock full of miracle-particles-of-the-week and other technologies that are unrealistic even centuries in the future (see also: The Physics of Star Trek by Lawrence Krauss), this is patently ridiculous. I get that the writers want to have some freedom to write their own stories with their own ideas for tech but they signed up to make Star Trek (and a prequel at that) which has a fairly well-developed canon for these sorts of things.

    4) The characters. I watched the first two episodes on the free trial of All-Access and with the exception of Saru and maybe Georgiou, even the named characters were bland and uninspiring.

    5) The overall choices for art. I don’t dispute high production quality (cinematic is a good word for it) but pulsed phasers, holograms, uniform designs, and ship designs do not fit into this time period. It would make far more sense if the show was set in the Kelvin timeline, where the events of 2233 drastically changed the political and technolgical landscape of the Alpha Quadrant...but CBS backed themselves into a corner by promising that they would stage Discovery in the Prime Universe.

    I do not reflexively airlock all STD characters, though other than T’Kuvma, the two Saru variants, the 2* Burnham, and the latest Burnham I also have no intention of leveling those I do have any time soon. This is for much the same reason as others have stated: I want to enjoy the game by using characters I know and love. I have to give in a little to make sure I can remain competitive but if I don’t like a character I’m probably not going to work very hard on them or to get them. See also: Jake Sisko, Wesley, Neelix.
  • When people say things like they get it free on Netflix it means they already have and use Netflix. They are not paying anything extra to have Discovery so yeah I would say it’s free and be very confident that it’s a true statement. Star Trek Timelines was free. The phone was bought, the monthly bill is paid, but gosh diddly darnit the game is free.
    I mean something slightly different, which is why I usually phrase it as "is included with Netflix".
    I have Amazon Prime, and there is an option to add CBS All Access to Amazon Prime. For exactly the same cost as getting it seperately.

    Lots of CBS content is available online for free, unless you want to quibble that having to watch ads is a form of payment. And if that's your position, I'll point out that ads are super cheap. If My time is worth $10 an hour, most online shows "cost" me about 25 cents an hour to watch.

    Really I have two seperate complaints about Discovery. The first is that it is behind a paywall at all. There are plenty of ways to put it up for free while still making All Access attractive: only have the last 2 episodes up for free. Only put the new episode up a week after it airs. And of course run commercials.

    The second is that All Access is exceptionally poor value for the money.
    They priced it comparable to Amazon and Netflix, and it just isn't remotely in that league. If it offered streaming of every show CBS had ever aired (Magnum PI, Murder She Wrote, all of 60 Minutes for the last 50 years), then maybe it would be worth $10 a month.

    And third: they offer a better deal to everyone outside the US. So basicly I am being punished for being honest and not logging into Netflix through a proxy in England.

  • ... It would make far more sense if the show was set in the Kelvin timeline, where the events of 2233 drastically changed the political and technolgical landscape of the Alpha Quadrant...but CBS backed themselves into a corner by promising that they would stage Discovery in the Prime Universe.
    Forgive the nitpick but I feel it is important to note that CBS didn't actually have any choice about that.
    When the old Viacom (which owned all of the rights to Star Trek) was splitting up in 2005, they split the rights to Star Trek. CBS got the rights to make TV shows and the "Prime" universe, Paramount Pictures got the rights to make movies and to create the "Kelvin" universe.
    CBS can't set a show in the Kelvin universe any more than they could use any other property they don't own. And given how the owners seem to view the two franchises as competitors, this means we aren't going to see any Prime universe movies or Kelvin universe tv shows.

  • IrialIrial ✭✭✭✭
    Irial wrote: »
    jackson992 wrote: »
    My hate stems from the fact that you cannot watch it for free like you should be able to

    To clarify, I think you do not like how much you would need to pay to be able to watch the show during its original airing ... to the best of my knowledge, for any/every show being newly created these days, you have to one way or another pay something, don't you?

    Again with the picking apart of every last tiny detail. The dude doesn’t like a $10 subscription charge to watch one show a week. Let it be

    My apologies Enterprise Was Best for my poorly phrased question, as I now realize it failed to convey my intended point - it was not my wish to be "picking apart ... every last tiny detail".

    I 100% agree with you that the "dude doesn't like a $10 subscription charge to watch one show a week". The part of his post though that I was wanting to question was the sentiment I read (perhaps incorrectly) within the phase "free like you should be able to" - to me this comes across as either there is a feeling of some type of 'entitlement' regarding being able to watch the show without paying an extra charge, or even more severely as somehow it is 'immoral' of CBS to be marketing this product in this manner. Again, maybe it is all in my head and I am just overthinking it, but hopefully if nothing else, you will now understand I was not interested in picking apart a tiny detail.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Irial wrote: »
    Irial wrote: »
    jackson992 wrote: »
    My hate stems from the fact that you cannot watch it for free like you should be able to

    To clarify, I think you do not like how much you would need to pay to be able to watch the show during its original airing ... to the best of my knowledge, for any/every show being newly created these days, you have to one way or another pay something, don't you?

    Again with the picking apart of every last tiny detail. The dude doesn’t like a $10 subscription charge to watch one show a week. Let it be

    My apologies Enterprise Was Best for my poorly phrased question, as I now realize it failed to convey my intended point - it was not my wish to be "picking apart ... every last tiny detail".

    I 100% agree with you that the "dude doesn't like a $10 subscription charge to watch one show a week". The part of his post though that I was wanting to question was the sentiment I read (perhaps incorrectly) within the phase "free like you should be able to" - to me this comes across as either there is a feeling of some type of 'entitlement' regarding being able to watch the show without paying an extra charge, or even more severely as somehow it is 'immoral' of CBS to be marketing this product in this manner. Again, maybe it is all in my head and I am just overthinking it, but hopefully if nothing else, you will now understand I was not interested in picking apart a tiny detail.

    Maybe not immoral, but frankly, its a bad financial deal just for one show.
    The price break will be interesting to see when the blu-ray release hits. I'm betting it will be cheaper than the service. But then you'll not have the eps the moment they come out -- you'd have to wait til the end of the season.

    Or the sheer amount of content available on other services for comparable pricing.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know the crazy thing? If it wasn't for playing this game, I'd not even give two thoughts about Discovery anymore.

    I'm perfectly content with other shows and franchises these days, and using them to get the things that I used to get from Trek. But then I started that break with Enterprise and Nemesis. It used to be that Trek really had a monopoly on well written stories that could actually lift you up or speak to something that needed a voice in the sci fi vein. I woke up a bit when Babylon 5 came around and I watched it and DS9 unfold together with nothing short of awe. And then there was Farscape, etc. And I really never felt much from the first Wrath of Khan remake, nor whatever Enterprise was.

    I think whenever i leave this game, I might just box up all my Trek and put it in the closet for a while. Let it sit for a bit and let the parts that mean something to me become special again.

    Really the only things that stir me up on Disco anymore are the anti-hater hate patrol, lol. Or the ones who cry foul when all you want is that this place isn't 24/7 only Disco and the other shows still get exposure during events (I wanna see what the megas are going to look like with Disco on hiatus). (I think the phrase entitled gatekeeper is what I was called for that.).
  • The Collective (PoF)The Collective (PoF) ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    A little off topic but I’ve noticed it in some of the posts. Which leads me to my question: Why does everyone hate William Shatner?
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Check out my ‘Characters’ thread on the holodeck!

    Currently XO of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 83
    Played since January 2017

    Call me Colli!
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A little off topic but I’ve noticed it in some of the posts. Which leads me to my question: Why does everyone hate William Shatner?

    By several accounts from his main cast co-stars, he was a diva on TOS. Even he and Nimoy had a long-standing enmity until they patched things up later in life. And since then he has not been the most easy-going fella, to put it mildly. He does not suffer fools gladly, for sure.


    Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
    ~ Data, ST:TNG "Haven"
  • JhamelJhamel ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mainly I dislike DSC because it's yet ANOTHER reboot of the original timeline. Enterprise was okay (not too great, but okay) and it was still Star Trek (not only because of "Regeneration" and "These Are The Voyages", even though those two episodes gave me the chills).

    Then there is the Kelvin timeline ... argh. Not wanna talk about that now. I watched all three movies and the "best" of them was probably Into Darkness because of Benedict Cumberbatch and Peter Weller alone. Already then I thought "oh no, not another movie before the TNG timeline".

    And now there's Discovery ... please! I want more Star Trek! I want to see what happened with Deep Space Nine, the Enterprise-E, Voyager ... the Titan ... B-4 ... the relations with the Romulans and much more. This all will probably always and only be reserved for the books. :(
    "Everything about the Jem'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris (ST-DS9 Episode 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar")
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    A little off topic but I’ve noticed it in some of the posts. Which leads me to my question: Why does everyone hate William Shatner?

    By several accounts from his main cast co-stars, he was a diva on TOS. Even he and Nimoy had a long-standing enmity until they patched things up later in life. And since then he has not been the most easy-going fella, to put it mildly. He does not suffer fools gladly, for sure.

    Thanks, I didn’t know that.
    “What's a knockout like you doing in a computer-generated gin joint like this?”

    Check out my ‘Characters’ thread on the holodeck!

    Currently XO of Patterns of Force
    Captain Level 83
    Played since January 2017

    Call me Colli!
  • Data1001 wrote: »
    A little off topic but I’ve noticed it in some of the posts. Which leads me to my question: Why does everyone hate William Shatner?

    By several accounts from his main cast co-stars, he was a diva on TOS. Even he and Nimoy had a long-standing enmity until they patched things up later in life. And since then he has not been the most easy-going fella, to put it mildly. He does not suffer fools gladly, for sure.

    Thanks, I didn’t know that.

    It's often attributed to the SOP of television in the 60s. Shatner was the lead so he felt threatened by the popularity of Nimoy's character and rather trampled on the day players. It's worth noting that Takei, Koenig and Nichols were only day players. Doohan had a slightly better contract than they did but yeah, the bit part players felt Shatner wasn't giving them their due.
  • I had heard also that he directed Star Trek V because he refused to come back unless he could direct, largely motivated by Nimoy having directed III and IV.

    A lot of people who worked with him dislike him on a personal level, and most of them feel that's entirely his fault, though most of them seem reluctant to say why.
  • Ivanstone wrote: »
    Issues that I have with Discovery:
    1 - Imagine if we started DS9 right in the middle of the Dominion War. People would get a different impression of what a Star Trek show would be like. Instead DS9 started with a fresh new Captain using baseball to explain linear time to aliens who don't understand the concept. That's a little more Trek.
    2 - I like Michael Burnham's story. SMG might not be the best actor to tell that story. Honestly, I find her to be the least compelling actor in the DSC cast. I expect better from the series lead. She has had some good moments though and may grow into the role later.
    3 - Art direction is not mastering its domain. DSC in some ways looks like what a futuristic ship should be. And then they went overboard. The new look Klingons being the most egregious example.

    I don't airlock everything DSC. Some of the crew are very good although I wish I didn't grab Lorca. He's not bad at 1/5 but I already have plenty of CSD crew. I ended up skipping Tilly and Mudd because I didn't want more 1/5 2 Skill characters. Most of the DSC crew live in the vault. Tactical Burnham is the easily the best out of the lot.

    Amen.
    Overwhelm and devastate, that's the way to get power and to hold it, and I mean to do that. - Colonel Green, who led a genocidal war early in the 21st century
  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    Hearing all the mirror universe talk got to me. I caved and watched a bunch more episodes. The series actually does get a lot better. Still hate the Klingons, but there are a bunch of episodes where there is little to no screen time with Klingons and those episodes have been pretty awesome.
  • PallidynePallidyne ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Clanof wrote: »
    Hearing all the mirror universe talk got to me. I caved and watched a bunch more episodes. The series actually does get a lot better. Still hate the Klingons, but there are a bunch of episodes where there is little to no screen time with Klingons and those episodes have been pretty awesome.

    They're written decently if you don't mind hairpin turn WTF moments. Some of the actors deliver.
    That ain't my problem with it.
  • ClanofClanof ✭✭✭
    Pallidyne wrote: »
    Clanof wrote: »
    Hearing all the mirror universe talk got to me. I caved and watched a bunch more episodes. The series actually does get a lot better. Still hate the Klingons, but there are a bunch of episodes where there is little to no screen time with Klingons and those episodes have been pretty awesome.

    They're written decently if you don't mind hairpin turn WTF moments. Some of the actors deliver.
    That ain't my problem with it.

    Yea... and I read your earlier comments and you are 100% right. Star Trek has always examined humanity and morality in ways that this show isn't doing, and without that it doesn't feel like Star Trek, it does feel more like a generic action show. But damn does it get good for a generic action show. Juat wish they wouldnt have branded it Star Trek because after the first half dozen episodes it gets pretty exciting.
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