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Clarification needed on Cloak ability

FarnsworthFarnsworth ✭✭
edited July 2018 in Engineering Room
**edit** tl;dr version - CS told me that the Dev team insists all instant damage attack crew are supposed to penetrate cloak and are investigating why they can't consistently do so. **edit**

Okay, I've spent weeks going back and forth with CS over the fact that the T'Ong fires on ships while they're cloaked if the cloak lasts long enough. CS claims it doesn't happen. Dev team claims it doesn't happen. I post videos of it on YouTube and share with CS. CS says Dev team insists it's always done that.

Um, no.

Now CS is insisting that the Dev team told them that "Space Battle Skill 'Immediately Deals % Damage' should worked [sic] on cloaked ship". The email goes on to say that the concern is why it's only working on the T'Ong. IE, why only the T'Ong can FIRE ON AND HIT SHIPS CURRENTLY CLOAKED. Okay, usually it doesn't damage them, but I have a video of my ship being hammered by a torpedo (graphically, yes it's only a standard attack, it's not a special torpedo or anything) already on its way as it's decloaking.

Let me repeat that for the TL;DR people -- CS is saying that the Dev team is investigating why cloaked ships aren't getting hit by instant damage attack crew right now.

Let that sink in. What's the only real defense in the arena against monsters like Killy and T'Kuvma? Cloak. That's one of the reasons why the T'Ong and Bounty and Defiant and Warbird are so (or still) popular. We can defend ourselves against virtually every other ship out there. And T'Kuvma is very popular (as he should be, being so powerful), but if we can't cloak and protect ourselves against attack, what is the cloak good for?

So, tell me, is the cloak impenetrable or not? If not, was it really glitched for the last two years and nobody bothered to check it? If it is, why am I being told otherwise? And why are my Bounty and T'Ong being attacked while cloaked? Sometimes fatally? Or are we looking at a drastic change to the way the arena and game in general is being played? Considering Skirmish events, if this is a change in the way we've been playing it strikes me as a very bad move.

Comments

  • https://youtube.com/watch?v=5VUygVhbmkg

    The aforementioned video. I'm already being hit before my ship decloaks.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    I was killed while cloaked. The killing shot came 3 seconds into my cloak, by the IKS K'Ong. I have finally decided to cloak just before the K'Ong's ship accuracy ability. It almost always keeps me from being hit while cloaked.
    But I still here the sound effects of shots being fired at me. You do not here that for any other ship but that K'Ong.
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    I am curious about this topic as well. IMHO instant damage should only work when the other ship is visible. “Instant damage” should not mean “instant lock on no matter what.” Otherwise, it appears to make the cloak pointless...

    I am also concerned that no one seems to be able to give a straight answer...
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are Recruiting

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  • Watch the video -- my ship is clearly being hit by the T'Ong I'm facing. And CS claims the Dev team decided intentionally to allow that.

    IE, it's not a glitch, it's a feather.
  • I have also been hit by T'Ong whilst cloaked. I was always on the belief that T'Ong fired as I cloaked, and if the aim was true it would hit me whilst cloaked. This I can accept, but since ships generally can't raise Shields and cloak at the same time, it should affect hull only.

    Not quite the same as your issue, but perhaps related.
  • RaijinmeisterRaijinmeister ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    My best guess is that was due to some desync/lag. I observed that before. Probably for you, the ship was de-cloaking but for the enemy, you were already targetable.

    About happening only to the T'ong I believe is also because of a bug. I some time ago, right when that ship was released, reported here that the firing animation of my T'ong got delayed to the point it seems the ship is not firing at all right after decloaking. But probably that report here was ignored and nothing was done to fix since the ship until recently wasn't a mainstay in the arena.
    https://forum.disruptorbeam.com/stt/discussion/1228/iks-tong#latest
  • No, it's an "intentional design choice". I can't post screenshots of my CS tickets, but I assure you that's what I was told.

    I'm far more concerned with the fact that CS claims instant damage attacks were always supposed to cut through cloak so they're investigating how to "fix" that. With the Skirmish event coming up on Thursday, I'd like to know if cloak is now (or soon to be) bloody useless or if I was fed a load of malarkey.
  • Hamsters2Hamsters2 ✭✭✭
    So you wanted T'ong fixed and instead DB is focusing on nerfing cloak? So all hate mail goes to @Farnsworth when it happens?! ;-)

    But seriously, if instant damage gets through cloak, what a nightmare! Everyone just uses the fastest damage hitters in the game. No more strategy, just who has those few crew to damage the fastest. What a disaster that would be!
  • I wish we could get @Shan to clarify over here. Would be nice to know if I've been given the runaround for the last few weeks or not, and it would be nice to know if this major a change was actually happening.
  • SoupKitchen RikerSoupKitchen Riker ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Shan Can someone clarify the issue prior to the next event?
    “A committee is a cul-de-sac, down which good ideas are lured and quietly strangled.”
    —Mark Twain

    MEMBER: [BoB] Barrel of Bloodwine... We are Recruiting

    Best Event Finish: #7 during Rule 125 Rerun

    820 Immortalized (Not Counting Duplicates)

    Honor Debt: Inconceivable, but maybe TP will take a personal check?
  • Looks like @Shan is too busy to at even say she's looking into it.
  • Sybok MKIISybok MKII ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    I noticed that too. The T'Ong seems to be able to hit long after the opposite ship cloaks itself.
    I mean, I noticed that clocking isn't instantly operating when you activate it: Bounty VS Bounty can hit its adversary 0,5 or 1 second after cloaking, but that's ok (cloaking is not like turning on/off a lamp, even in the shows).
    But T'Ong can hit you even 2 or 3 seconds after cloaking yourself.
    I ever thought it was a hidden ability of some sort, because the ship is nothing special otherwise, at least if you don't own super specialized crew.
    It's even easy to avoid, once you know it: just activate the cloak as sooner as possible (same as battling a Killy-leading squad).
    My two cents.
  • I have noticed the same behavior. Only happens with the T'Ong. I cloak my Bounty and the T'Ong still hits me several times and totally ignores my cloak.

    Other Bountys, BoPs and Warbirds respect my cloak. ;)
    Deep Space Exploration Fleet - German Casual Fleet
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  • FarnsworthFarnsworth ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Edited the first post to better reflect the main concern since if what CS told me is true it fundamental changes the way the arena and all future Skirmish events are played.
  • @Shan Considering a Skirmish is about to start and both new ships have cloak, do you think now would be a good time to chime in on whether or not all the strategy we've built over the last two years involving the cloaking ability is about to be ruined?
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Just want to reiterate that it is not instantaneous damage but all damage that gets through the cloak. It really comes down to evasion whether you are hit or not.

    But at the same time, I am having success with cloaking just before it's accuracy ship ability.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    What CS told you cannot be true. Instantaneous attacks need to target something. You cannnot be targeted if you are cloaked.

    Though it would be hilarious if that is what they want to do. Because we will just hit these defenseless ships with four instantaneous attacks. And, probably will not need all four.
  • 7px4trfs94a2.jpg

    Thanks for the chuckle Frank
  • WaldoMag wrote: »
    What CS told you cannot be true. Instantaneous attacks need to target something. You cannnot be targeted if you are cloaked.

    Though it would be hilarious if that is what they want to do. Because we will just hit these defenseless ships with four instantaneous attacks. And, probably will not need all four.

    I'm asking for official clarification from a DB representative so that I know they aren't going to do something so asinine.

    So far, not getting it.
  • I know this is off subject cloaking, I just like to know what position means. Suddenly there are so many ships that have "position" as a special effect. Don't all ships by virtue of flying position themselves? I asked and didn't get an answer that said anything more then they have position and these are the ships that have it and crew to match. I'm kind of new at this. Thanks for the info about the cloaking, been wondering on its ineffectiveness as well.
  • al103al103 ✭✭✭
    I just like to know what position means. Suddenly there are so many ships that have "position" as a special effect. Don't all ships by virtue of flying position themselves?
    Analog of Naval "crossing the T". All ships try to get best positioning, but positioning ships are actually agile enough to get it reliably or something.
  • Captain_WhoCaptain_Who ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know this is off subject cloaking, I just like to know what position means. Suddenly there are so many ships that have "position" as a special effect. Don't all ships by virtue of flying position themselves? I asked and didn't get an answer that said anything more then they have position and these are the ships that have it and crew to match. I'm kind of new at this. Thanks for the info about the cloaking, been wondering on its ineffectiveness as well.

    Increases to crit chance, is always tied to a (quite minor) evasion buff. AFAIK, that's all it does. Some crew get bonuses off of position, but I suspect they're like cloak and only on of them gets the effect. I haven't found a way to make it all that useful myself.
  • WaldoMag wrote: »
    What CS told you cannot be true. Instantaneous attacks need to target something. You cannnot be targeted if you are cloaked.

    Always bothered me that I can get boarded while cloaked. How do you know you're not beaming your dudes into open space?

  • Thanks for confirming for me that position isn't such a benefit. I was wondering if this was just a way of making ships "look" better. It seems to me that there were suddenly all kinds of ships with the Position as it's special . Just how good is 1000 in critical rating? That's what support told me was benefit. Where is critical rating applied? If anyone knows where I can get all this information, including the icons used, I recognized the boarding and cloaking crossed out eye, what is the third, looks like a rocket taking off? If there is a website with such information can you please post it here. Thanks all.
  • WaldoMagWaldoMag ✭✭✭✭✭
    WaldoMag wrote: »
    What CS told you cannot be true. Instantaneous attacks need to target something. You cannnot be targeted if you are cloaked.

    Always bothered me that I can get boarded while cloaked. How do you know you're not beaming your dudes into open space?


    It seems that boarding cannot happen if you are cloaked when it is triggered.
    But once boarding is triggered cloaking after will not stop the damage.

    I never know what to think of this. Sometimes I think cloaking should make killing off the troops that boarded easier. They should not get reinforcements. Other times, I think cloaking once you are boarded should also give damage to the other ship because their boarding troops are stuck and cannot retreat. But who knows maybe they can lock on a signal the troops send. But then the ship should be able to shoot the cloaked ship too.


  • ok, so this is still an issue.
    i have been getting pounded by the T'Ong repeatedly when cloaked.
    per the CS, Deals % is supose to work that way,
    so my question then is why does it only work in direction.
    because i tested this a few times, even while using the T'Ong, and
    could not hit the target in cloak.at least not with killy.
    the shot just passes right through. no, ifs, and, or buts
    yet while in cloak we are target-able.
    is this only a few crew with this ability, because Deals % does not punch through cloak with all crew that have it.
    @Shan
    is this ever going to get fixxed, or is it just going to keep being swept under the carpet.
    DB needs to fire the Ferrengi and higher more Engineers, Rom doesn't count.
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  • The work around is activate your crew with evasion ability on your cloak with one second left.
  • B.O.P. Is useless in epic level in event. First ship pounds it the entire time it’s cloaked. Using 4/5 Killy and immortalized frank Hollander. So much for the bonus ship. The description of cloak clearly states that it renders your ship untargetable. I beg to differ.
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