Are there any bad 5-stars?

I've opened One yesterday, and, unfortunately, noticed that he isn't as good as my other 5-stars. Only two skills, and he isn't a champion in them, average combat abilities. Don't make me wrong, I'm still happy with him, since I urgently needed an ENG character, and I've even wasted $25 to get a second star for him, but I don't like the fact some 5-stars are really bad.
Maybe I miss something in him? I'm still new to the game and can easily miss important things. Maybe his Evasion bonus is important, or his traits?
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Comments

  • One seems popular in the arena. So if you like to play there is probably not a complete waste.
    But yes, there are a lot of subpar 5*
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    To my mind One has a very small niche there are uses to him for example a ENG AND SEC shuttle slot he would do well in because he has decent/equal base in both skills similarly Dancing Uhura has similar even parity where as other legendaries can be have skills that are a bit too lop sided.

    For me he is useful but only when maxed so you probably have to weigh up whether you can hold onto him for a long time or not.

    Similarly I got the waste of space Cartwight from the Starfleet Brass pack who has aforementioned lop sided stats underwhelming proficiency in a bloated skill set, I'm only holding onto him because I can and I am not sure i can stomach the pitiful 550 honor he will give me, but I'll probably do it eventually, he also isn't main character so unlikely to be bonus unless they do some sort of Admiral event.
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  • EctorEctor ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Data1001 wrote: »
    First, they often don't become useful until they are fully fused (5/5).
    I've noticed that most 2/5s have better stats than almost all 4/4s. That's why I'm trying to pay for a second star whenever I can.
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Second, power creep. Since STT first began, there has been a slow yet steady increase in stats as new crew are introduced. The newer crew are, generally-speaking, a better bang for the buck.
    Thank you! I should guess myself. I came from the CCG world, after all.
    Data1001 wrote: »
    This is not always true, however — Guinevere Kira (who has base stats very similar to the crew you mention above, One) was pooh-poohed by a number of people for not being worth the effort, despite what at one time might've been thought of as pretty solid strength.
    I've got her at 5/5 (actually even 7/5 :smiley:), and she's much better than One. The Queen has average SEC 1590.5, and only five characters in the game have better. Moreover, her average proficiency is 494.5, and only two characters have better! One has 1392 ENG, and many characters have higher. His average proficiency is 376, and five characters have better.
    Same about combat abilities. Guinevere Kira deals 400% damage immediately, triggered by Position, and such abilities are quite rare.
    Often, a good 4/4 will beat a 1/5 — but that 4 has nowhere to go from there, and there is always the chance that you will build up that 5's strength with more stars as time goes on. What I'm saying is, ofttimes, a Legendary is a long-term investment. ;)
    That's exactly what I feel now, but my very limited experience tells that chances to get a better 5-star are much higher compared to chances of building up the weak 5-star :smile: The legendary citation is so expensive...

  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ector wrote: »
    I've noticed that most 2/5s have better stats than almost all 4/4s. That's why I'm trying to pay for a second star whenever I can.

    It definitely helps, but going from 1 star to 2 stars usually isn't a very significant change. Although you've obviously gotta make 'em 2-star Legendaries before they can ever be 5-star Legendaries. ;)
    Ector wrote: »
    Data1001 wrote: »
    This is not always true, however — Guinevere Kira (who has base stats very similar to the crew you mention above, One) was pooh-poohed by a number of people for not being worth the effort, despite what at one time might've been thought of as pretty solid strength.
    I've got her at 5/5 (actually even 7/5 :smiley:), and she's much better than One. The Queen has average SEC 1590.5, and only five characters in the game have better.

    Yes, her average combined SEC is much better than One's. That's why I specifically mentioned that her base stats were similar to his — both of them just past 1000 on both skills. But of course she has much better proficiency — and yet, even with that, quite a few players have commented that she has poor stats. But it's all relative. Those players certainly feel that way because they've got a lot of crew with top-notch strength, or were just hoping that the power creep would continue and they'd get a beast in her. Personally, I think she's pretty decent, despite her only having two skills.
    Ector wrote: »
    The legendary citation is so expensive...

    Indeed. And personally, I don't generally buy Legendary citations until I've got someone to 4/5, as otherwise it's just not helping my crew strength much. (The exception, of course, is that I'll usually cite the recurring 5* in a mega event as soon as I get one copy of them, so as to maximize their power during the subsequent weeks.) I will also occasionally cite up a Super-rare, but usually only if they're a recent addition to the game (and thus wouldn't be offered in regular premium pulls for some time).


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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also have One -- and in my case (due to sheer luck) he's at 2/5*'s. And I still haven't leveled him all the way up because he's just not that good. I'm holding onto him for now in case a third copy comes along. Then he'd start beating a couple top 4/4*'s in my crew and be worth levelling. But not until then.
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  • You'll have to define "bad" better. Low-stat? Sure. Look at Gangster Spock -- but he makes up for it with high security proficiency and a good combination for the Gauntlet. Limited application? Of course! Some crew just have bad skill combos. For example, look at the sheer number of command/diplo/security crew. Arguably, anyone who doesn't beat someone you already have would be "bad".

    Insanely difficult to level for no real benefit to your crew roster? I'd consider those the "worst", but you asked about "bad".

    I haven't leveled One (and don't have The One, Lore), so I can't attest to any of the above, but I can tell you that his evasion boost is good in the arena and his Borg trait (from having numerous Borg crew myself) can be quite useful on away missions.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Farnsworth wrote: »
    You'll have to define "bad" better. Low-stat? Sure. Look at Gangster Spock -- but he makes up for it with high security proficiency and a good combination for the Gauntlet. Limited application? Of course! Some crew just have bad skill combos. For example, look at the sheer number of command/diplo/security crew. Arguably, anyone who doesn't beat someone you already have would be "bad".

    Insanely difficult to level for no real benefit to your crew roster? I'd consider those the "worst", but you asked about "bad".

    I haven't leveled One (and don't have The One, Lore), so I can't attest to any of the above, but I can tell you that his evasion boost is good in the arena and his Borg trait (from having numerous Borg crew myself) can be quite useful on away missions.

    100% this. “Good” or “bad” crew are very relative terms, based on who is commenting (and what their crew looks like) and what your needs are. I’ve seen multiple posts trashing Grand Nagus Rom as a bad 5* crew but he’s my top diplomat and far and away my best for the DIP/ENG combo. People will say that Captain Scott is worthless, and with power creep he is outside of the arena - unless you don’t have Mirror Geordi, the Banjoman, or any other top ENG crew for the gauntlet. He’s still only got one skill but if he’s your only legendary he will be better at ENG proficiency than any of your rare or super rare crew. Idrin is a character nobody who places in the top 25,000 in events uses, but he would be well ahead of any 2* SEC crew for a new player still working their way through the first few episodes.

    Building a crew that is successful in multiple facets of the game is a challenge, and one that I think most people enjoy...otherwise, it would probably seem too much like work. The good thing is that if you have a specific question, there are a lot people here happy to offer advice.
  • DavideBooksDavideBooks ✭✭✭✭✭
    How exactly does adding stars work, stat-wise? I had been under the impression that adding stars worked on a linear scale, but that does not seem to be the case. How do I know (aside from the wiki) how much my 5* will improve when adding a star?
  • <TGE> Clifford<TGE> Clifford ✭✭✭✭✭
    How exactly does adding stars work, stat-wise? I had been under the impression that adding stars worked on a linear scale, but that does not seem to be the case. How do I know (aside from the wiki) how much my 5* will improve when adding a star?

    Assume that it scales upwards. The second star is a tiny bump to base stats. It seems almost negligible, at like +20 to each base stat. The third is muuch more of a difference, and so on and so forth.

    If you want a way to tell in-game, unfortunately, the only way to find out is to do it.
  • How exactly does adding stars work, stat-wise? I had been under the impression that adding stars worked on a linear scale, but that does not seem to be the case. How do I know (aside from the wiki) how much my 5* will improve when adding a star?

    Assume that it scales upwards. The second star is a tiny bump to base stats. It seems almost negligible, at like +20 to each base stat. The third is muuch more of a difference, and so on and so forth.

    If you want a way to tell in-game, unfortunately, the only way to find out is to do it.

    The wiki is very helpful in that regard too. For example, One's ENG base stat goes up 26 with a second star, 78 with a third, 136 for four, and 150 for the last star, without starbase or collection bonuses. It is not linear, and it is not the same from character to character. A few characters (like 1701 Sisko, for example, or Tourist Reed, though he's a 4*) even flip which base stat is their highest as you fuse them up.
  • EctorEctor ✭✭
    Farnsworth wrote: »
    You'll have to define "bad" better. Low-stat? Sure. Look at Gangster Spock -- but he makes up for it with high security proficiency and a good combination for the Gauntlet. Limited application? Of course! Some crew just have bad skill combos. For example, look at the sheer number of command/diplo/security crew. Arguably, anyone who doesn't beat someone you already have would be "bad".
    I've thought the definition is simple. A character is "bad" if he isn't good anywhere: neither in missions nor in voyage, gauntlet or combat.
    One can be qualified as "bad" because I don't see where he is good. Queen Guinevere Kira cannot, since she is good in missions, in gauntlet and even in combat (once you have a good ship with Position).

  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will say this. I have Rom and Dukat immortalized and I have never used them once for anything.
  • EctorEctor ✭✭
    I’ve seen multiple posts trashing Grand Nagus Rom as a bad 5* crew but he’s my top diplomat and far and away my best for the DIP/ENG combo.
    Yes, the Rom is bad since many characters are better in DIP, and, honestly, I can't understand why you should need a DIP/ENG combo. You may have nobody better for DIP, as I've got nobody better for ENG than my One, but I'll retire my One as soon as I'll find somebody better.
    People will say that Captain Scott is worthless, and with power creep he is outside of the arena - unless you don’t have Mirror Geordi, the Banjoman, or any other top ENG crew for the gauntlet. He’s still only got one skill but if he’s your only legendary he will be better at ENG proficiency than any of your rare or super rare crew. Idrin is a character nobody who places in the top 25,000 in events uses, but he would be well ahead of any 2* SEC crew for a new player still working their way through the first few episodes.
    Captain Scott has awesome combat bonuses, so he isn't worthless. I feel that his ENG should be boosted, as it's his only skill.

  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    People will say that Captain Scott is worthless, and with power creep he is outside of the arena - unless you don’t have Mirror Geordi, the Banjoman, or any other top ENG crew for the gauntlet. He’s still only got one skill but if he’s your only legendary he will be better at ENG proficiency than any of your rare or super rare crew.

    I have Borg Laforge and he is my top ENG; no caretaker but with only one skill Captain Scott is rather pointless; i have been lucky enough to avoid him in beholds. Other bad crew are Mirror Data (his stats are awesome he just looks utter crap) and Mamma Troi is also pretty rubbish, but she does have her own Gauntlet.

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  • Jim SteeleJim Steele ✭✭✭✭✭
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    I will say this. I have Rom and Dukat immortalized and I have never used them once for anything.
    I do use Rom a bit on voyages, sure hes not brilliant but he does count as Ferengi and (I think) Bajoran so always good to get an AM boost.
    DB: Do Better
  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭
    Ector wrote: »
    I've thought the definition is simple. A character is "bad" if he isn't good anywhere: neither in missions nor in voyage, gauntlet or combat.
    One can be qualified as "bad" because I don't see where he is good. Queen Guinevere Kira cannot, since she is good in missions, in gauntlet and even in combat (once you have a good ship with Position).

    The fallacy of your thinking there is that you assume you have all 5*s ... if you own every single card in the game there will inevitably be better cards than others ...

    The reality is that you'll only own a select few 5*s ... For example; quite a while back I picked up a Suliban Reed, he was awesome for me ... both in Gauntlet and on shuttles ... but that was because he was one of the few 5*s I had and that I'd managed to level to 100. Since then he has become little used and only goes out on shuttles/voyages during events.
    Aviator Yar, RAF O'Brien, Orion Vina, Scientist Degra (my first 5*) and other 1/5s have fallen the same fate, all were great for an extended period but ... they are waiting for stars to be of use again. Do they have potential? Yes. Are they used anywhere? No. Are they bad? No.

    The same can be said for Rom ... if he's the first 5* you get he'll be awesome ... you could even use him during numerous Ferengi bonus events ... he's really easy to level so great for new players etc. etc. etc.

    A lot of the advice you'll see here on the forums will contain phrases like "Never use them" and the like, but what many people rarely state is that they have an extensive collection of crew and have paid money to get to that point. --> often playing into your "bad" crew statement.
    There are only a few people on the forums who provide a balanced view of why you should or shouldn't choose someone in a behold. Or why you should/shouldn't airlock a 4*.
  • EctorEctor ✭✭
    RaraRacing wrote: »
    The fallacy of your thinking there is that you assume you have all 5*s ... if you own every single card in the game there will inevitably be better cards than others ...

    The reality is that you'll only own a select few 5*s ... For example; quite a while back I picked up a Suliban Reed, he was awesome for me ... both in Gauntlet and on shuttles ... but that was because he was one of the few 5*s I had and that I'd managed to level to 100. Since then he has become little used and only goes out on shuttles/voyages during events.
    Of course the point of view depends on the money spending, but I guess playing this game without even a cheap monthly subscription (100 crystals daily) is really frustrating :blush:
    And if you have a bad crew, you know that sooner or later you will get somebody better, and your guy will be retired. There are very nice events, where you can get legendary crew... I know my One will be replaced some day.

  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭
    Ector wrote: »
    RaraRacing wrote: »
    The fallacy of your thinking there is that you assume you have all 5*s ... if you own every single card in the game there will inevitably be better cards than others ...

    The reality is that you'll only own a select few 5*s ... For example; quite a while back I picked up a Suliban Reed, he was awesome for me ... both in Gauntlet and on shuttles ... but that was because he was one of the few 5*s I had and that I'd managed to level to 100. Since then he has become little used and only goes out on shuttles/voyages during events.
    Of course the point of view depends on the money spending, but I guess playing this game without even a cheap monthly subscription (100 crystals daily) is really frustrating :blush:
    And if you have a bad crew, you know that sooner or later you will get somebody better, and your guy will be retired. There are very nice events, where you can get legendary crew... I know my One will be replaced some day.

    I don't spend a dime on this game.

    You can add stars to One during the event he's featured in (a Faction event none-the-less, so extra handy to share with squad mates if you are a squad leader!) ... he also has the Borg trait and there are events where that trait provides a double bonus ... and he's part of a Crew Collection ... far from a useless crew member I feel.
  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ector wrote: »
    I’ve seen multiple posts trashing Grand Nagus Rom as a bad 5* crew but he’s my top diplomat and far and away my best for the DIP/ENG combo.
    Yes, the Rom is bad since many characters are better in DIP, and, honestly, I can't understand why you should need a DIP/ENG combo. You may have nobody better for DIP, as I've got nobody better for ENG than my One, but I'll retire my One as soon as I'll find somebody better.

    I am super happy for you and others that have so many DIP primary immortalized 5* crew that Rom no longer has value for you. I am not so fortunate, therefore Rom is a good character for me.

    Also, if you never, ever get a DIP/ENG or ENG/DIP voyage or shuttle slot you may wish to contact CS about a bug.
  • Jim Steele wrote: »
    Banjo1012 wrote: »
    I will say this. I have Rom and Dukat immortalized and I have never used them once for anything.
    I do use Rom a bit on voyages, sure hes not brilliant but he does count as Ferengi and (I think) Bajoran so always good to get an AM boost.

    Ditto. Rom has good traits and three skills, so he's often handy for an ENG-focused voyage.
  • Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.
  • Data1001Data1001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Roland 359 wrote: »
    Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.

    Saavik is certainly more regularly useful, but she would drop quite frequently in Voyages and pulls (premium, credit, and merit). As a new player, I'd choose Vina in a heartbeat, mainly because Legendaries are far rarer and harder to acquire, but being new, she'd also be quite useful in clearing episode nodes and in Gauntlet (where even a 400+ proficiency can be helpful for a new player).


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  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Data1001 wrote: »
    Roland 359 wrote: »
    Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.

    Saavik is certainly more regularly useful, but she would drop quite frequently in Voyages and pulls (premium, credit, and merit). As a new player, I'd choose Vina in a heartbeat, mainly because Legendaries are far rarer and harder to acquire, but being new, she'd also be quite useful in clearing episode nodes and in Gauntlet (where even a 400+ proficiency can be helpful for a new player).

    Oh Data, you are right again. I remember the days of going into gauntlets with 3* Torres, Prisoner McCoy, Orion Slaver, Lt. Commander Dax, thinking I had a solid crew. A 400+ proficiency would certainly help a newbie

  • Data1001 wrote: »
    Roland 359 wrote: »
    Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.

    Saavik is certainly more regularly useful, but she would drop quite frequently in Voyages and pulls (premium, credit, and merit). As a new player, I'd choose Vina in a heartbeat, mainly because Legendaries are far rarer and harder to acquire, but being new, she'd also be quite useful in clearing episode nodes and in Gauntlet (where even a 400+ proficiency can be helpful for a new player).

    But you have to consider the difficulty for a newbie to fe Vina, only to be left with a card that will quickly only fill a valuable crew spot. I used that example, because I didn't know, when I was a newbie, how valuable Saavik would be on weekend cadet missions, and for random Vulcan faction events, etc. I must have airlocked several of her in the first months. Meanwhile, Vina was never useful for anything. Lots of SRs you can acquire from voyages or events as a new player that are better than Vina in Gauntlet, particularly as a 2 skill crew.
  • al103al103 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Well, it shoun't be looked as "5* characters". Because there is divide: there are no bad FFFE 5* (at most mediocre ones), but there are pleeeenty of bad 1/5 golds and even more of those that are only situationally useful.

    And for most people said bad 1/5 can't be made useful in sane timeframe or at least not over actually useful ones.
  • Ector wrote: »
    I've opened One yesterday, and, unfortunately, noticed that he isn't as good as my other 5-stars. Only two skills, and he isn't a champion in them, average combat abilities. Don't make me wrong, I'm still happy with him, since I urgently needed an ENG character, and I've even wasted $25 to get a second star for him, but I don't like the fact some 5-stars are really bad.
    Maybe I miss something in him? I'm still new to the game and can easily miss important things. Maybe his Evasion bonus is important, or his traits?

    As a general rule, I agree with Data that 5* crew are an investment. However, there are plenty of 5* in my opinion that aren't that great. Having said that, I'll probably never airlock one, although it may take a back seat to other more useful crew.

    In addition, I don't go chasing 5* crew just to have them. We have a limited amount of crew space after all, and we have to keep a good amount of 4* on the roster or else what's the point of getting them? Since getting in the top 1000 is a challenge for me, I'll usually carefully consider the 5* crew in an event to see if it's worth it, and if it is, I'll go for it or hope to make a lucky pull, otherwise I'll just let it go. Also, if the packs have some good 5* crew, I might make a pull, but I won't break the (dilithium) bank to get them.
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  • RaraRacingRaraRacing ✭✭✭✭
    Roland 359 wrote: »
    Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.

    This is like comparing apples to oranges ... you can never use Vina on cadet challenges so her usefulness there will always be zero.
    That's like saying Desert Ezri Dax is better than Vina ... because Vina can never be used on weekday cadet missions.
    I guess you're right there ... so congrats on convincing me that oranges taste more like an orange than apples do (and just on a side note ... I've been playing this game since mid-2016 ... if you can't get a single copy of a 3* you are looking for within a month of playing these days then you're really running low on luck - she was even the monthly 3* for this past February!).

    --> I levelled Vina because she had an almost 800 DIP base and I was in desperate need of DIP at the time that was not a 4* that I had FF (I was freezing all my immortalised 4*s to open space and had an unexpected 5* behold with Vina and two others who's skills etc. I had covered), so I levelled her and Marla (who I had 1/4) at the same time. This was before Collections and the mega events with DIP crew and shuttles had more spots on them than now ... anyway the ladies were always out on shuttles, Vina was definitely worth her gold for a while ... would I choose her today if she came up in a behold and didn't have a copy of her? Probably not ... my focus has shifted to ENG these days (recently chose Assimilated La Forge over Laborour Spock and Umpire Odo in a behold) ... is she a bad 5*? No.

    Furthermore, someone stated they have both Rom and Dukat immortalised and have never used them ... well that person lost out during the events in which they provided a bonus (Dukat in at least 3 so far) ... and 5* Dukat is actually in two Collections, but hey, worthless I guess.

    These are the kind of "useless" blanket statements that I was referring to in a previous post.
  • Banjo1012Banjo1012 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RaraRacing wrote: »
    Roland 359 wrote: »
    Well, if a new player was offered the option of a Saavik or an Orion Vina, I'd say take the Saavik.

    This is like comparing apples to oranges ... you can never use Vina on cadet challenges so her usefulness there will always be zero.
    That's like saying Desert Ezri Dax is better than Vina ... because Vina can never be used on weekday cadet missions.
    I guess you're right there ... so congrats on convincing me that oranges taste more like an orange than apples do (and just on a side note ... I've been playing this game since mid-2016 ... if you can't get a single copy of a 3* you are looking for within a month of playing these days then you're really running low on luck - she was even the monthly 3* for this past February!).

    --> I levelled Vina because she had an almost 800 DIP base and I was in desperate need of DIP at the time that was not a 4* that I had FF (I was freezing all my immortalised 4*s to open space and had an unexpected 5* behold with Vina and two others who's skills etc. I had covered), so I levelled her and Marla (who I had 1/4) at the same time. This was before Collections and the mega events with DIP crew and shuttles had more spots on them than now ... anyway the ladies were always out on shuttles, Vina was definitely worth her gold for a while ... would I choose her today if she came up in a behold and didn't have a copy of her? Probably not ... my focus has shifted to ENG these days (recently chose Assimilated La Forge over Laborour Spock and Umpire Odo in a behold) ... is she a bad 5*? No.

    Furthermore, someone stated they have both Rom and Dukat immortalised and have never used them ... well that person lost out during the events in which they provided a bonus (Dukat in at least 3 so far) ... and 5* Dukat is actually in two Collections, but hey, worthless I guess.

    These are the kind of "useless" blanket statements that I was referring to in a previous post.

    I had Dukat at 4 stars to start that event. Got the final star finishing top 1000. To continue your theme of technicalities, ok so I used him during the event. I haven’t used him since. As for Rom I have four people who provide me with better ENG/DIP numbers so I don’t even use him in an ENG/DIP voyage.

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