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Key information about the event: Secrets in the Desert - 11/07

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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    The rules are always lain out in Shan's post, rules are rules, don't see why you would need to go into further explanatory detail.

    Not everyone speaks English nor does everyone read the forum or watch DSC. The rules should be system immanent and self explaining as soon as one understood the basic mechanisms of the game.

    In Voq's & Tyler's case they are not self explaining because character appearances and names do not provide a hint to the connection between them nor do they have a visible trait indicating it.

    Even though I basically appreciate more variants I somehow wished they were none as this gives players (capable of) reading the forum an advantage over others who are unaware of the fact. I hope they point it out on the event info screen more explicitely than in the first post of this thread.

    If DB decided to remove the variant-status from some of them or against providing it to future versions I dearly hope they remove it from ALL of them to avoid confusion.

    I can appreciate that, perhaps the event (i) field, for event information, in game needs re-working or perhaps crew in the roster should have a bonus banner on them when the event is live. Similar to skirmishes or similar when crew are selected for battle station or on shuttles.

    But to remove "variants of" that goes a bit too far, it's one of the lynch-pins in the card collecting game.

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  • WebberoniWebberoni ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    I don't think Torchbearer Voq should be considered a Tyler variant, just like Teenager Nog should not have the Starfleet trait (he doesn't).

    Voq later merged with Tyler through a convoluted Disco plot line, just like Nog later joined Starfleet. After the defining event happens, assign the trait and/or apply the variant-linkage. Until then, don't.


    Note: I learned long ago not to dive down the STT trait consistency rabbit hole... Robin Hood and Captain Proton have the Starfleet trait while RAF O'Brien does not, despite them all being off-duty Starfleet officers enjoying the holodeck...
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    adonibyte. wrote: »
    It's simple logic syllogism really: all Tylers are Voqs, but not all Voqs are Tylers.

    5tqquyl3c7fg.jpg

    Or all blackbirds are birds, but not all black birds are blackbirds.
    Keep calm & October 15th!!!!!
  • Did anyone else get a notification that packs are available? I don't see them yet and I restarted the app to make sure.
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  • Dirk GundersonDirk Gunderson ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did anyone else get a notification that packs are available? I don't see them yet and I restarted the app to make sure.

    I got it as well...my guess is that whatever automated process that is controlling the notifications didn’t get moved up by an hour like the event itself.
  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did anyone else get a notification that packs are available? I don't see them yet and I restarted the app to make sure.

    I got it as well...my guess is that whatever automated process that is controlling the notifications didn’t get moved up by an hour like the event itself.

    They are showing in my Portal, but not the Event Rewards thing that we usually have now......

    wv3j1nciwbcy.jpg
    Keep calm & October 15th!!!!!
  • GhostStalkerGhostStalker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ugh, one pull, got O'Brien, remembered why I hate packs.
  • Looks like a good event for newer players who like Arena and Skirmishes. I'm almost tempted to say that Undercover O'Brien is the most worthwhile pursuit this event, unless you can get 3+ copies of Little John.
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  • DScottHewittDScottHewitt ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Tyler is Sec/Dip.


    Some interesting combo of Traits, though....



    3ha6xre9bmd3.jpg


    Little John has "Thief", and is Sec/Com/Dip

    ifnldeet631o.jpg
    Keep calm & October 15th!!!!!
  • @Shan
    Why Little John Riker ist not a part of the Sherwood Forest Collection?
    Will he become part of that?
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  • Three pulls, 2 Archers, 1 Tyler....I guess I better buy a lotto tix tonight... :D
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  • SSR BarkleySSR Barkley ✭✭✭✭✭
    collections don't get updated automatically. characters have to be manually added. a dev probably didn't let one of the engineers know.
    /SSR/ Barkley
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  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    The whole game is inconsistent, from traits, to names and storylines. So does it really matter!!

    Some of us have spent more than three years playing this game and investing in building our crew. Yes, it matters.
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  • Ugh, one pull, got O'Brien, remembered why I hate packs.
    Four packs. Three O'Briens, one Archer (blah), no Tyler... Sigh.
  • Weyoun 69Weyoun 69 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    The whole game is inconsistent, from traits, to names and storylines. So does it really matter!!

    Some of us have spent more than three years playing this game and investing in building our crew. Yes, it matters.

    @Matt_Decker , I am not sure if you meant to come off sounding elitist, but it does. You are by no means the only one. Apologies if taken in a different context to your intention.

    Yeh, I'm one of those players from day one too, and invested for more than 3 years in building my crew too; long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are at what time regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.

  • Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    The whole game is inconsistent, from traits, to names and storylines. So does it really matter!!

    Some of us have spent more than three years playing this game and investing in building our crew. Yes, it matters.

    Yeh, and I'm one of those players from day one too, and invested for more than 3 years in building my crew too; long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.

    On topic, I pulled 3 packs and got 2 Klingon Torres, and a Mirror Bev at least!

    Where is Blood Oath Jadzia's Klingon Trait?


    That one still irks me. Anyone else puts on a suit, they are Klingon. Dax was Godfather to three Klingon families, trained to use a Bat'Leth, and pledged to support three Klingon families.........

    And all that is before she married a Klingon. (See also: Rom's Bajoran trait.)
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  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think DB tries to be consistent with traits and bonus crew but it is very difficult when DB is trying to create consistency from an amalgamation of works created by dozens of different writers. DB also has to try to balance crew so that none are too powerful by having too many traits. DB does well considering the difficulties.
  • Weyoun 69Weyoun 69 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    I think DB tries to be consistent with traits and bonus crew but it is very difficult when DB is trying to create consistency from an amalgamation of works created by dozens of different writers. DB also has to try to balance crew so that none are too powerful by having too many traits. DB does well considering the difficulties.

    There is just no evidence of DB trying to be consistant with traits; one look at the Trait Audit thread shows that. Even with Desert Archer now, the inconsistencies are mind boggling, if we have got the Archer from the right episode.
    Agreed, it is difficult to create it from dozens of writers work, but shouldn't their be some kind of proof reading / check involved in the trait process at some point? It's a good point you make about balance, but on traits generally, I disagree - they don't do a good enough job in my opinion.
    Or there is, at least, a lot of room to do better!
  • It still bugs me they added Survivalist to Resilient Tuvok after his event. Didn’t go for him because he wasn’t supposed to be event crew during the mega.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    The whole game is inconsistent, from traits, to names and storylines. So does it really matter!!

    Some of us have spent more than three years playing this game and investing in building our crew. Yes, it matters.

    @Matt_Decker , I am not sure if you meant to come off sounding elitist, but it does. You are by no means the only one. Apologies if taken in a different context to your intention.

    Yeh, I'm one of those players from day one too, and invested for more than 3 years in building my crew too; long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are at what time regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.

    I was reacting to "So does it really matter!!" I wouldn't play this game if it didn't matter to me. My point about the time I've put into the game was to show how much it matters to me. I imagine it matters to lots of other players, too. I think when someone flippantly says "does it really matter" it's generally a copout.
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  • (HGH)Apollo(HGH)Apollo ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    I think DB tries to be consistent with traits and bonus crew but it is very difficult when DB is trying to create consistency from an amalgamation of works created by dozens of different writers. DB also has to try to balance crew so that none are too powerful by having too many traits. DB does well considering the difficulties.

    There is just no evidence of DB trying to be consistant with traits; one look at the Trait Audit thread shows that. Even with Desert Archer now, the inconsistencies are mind boggling, if we have got the Archer from the right episode.
    Agreed, it is difficult to create it from dozens of writers work, but shouldn't their be some kind of proof reading / check involved in the trait process at some point? It's a good point you make about balance, but on traits generally, I disagree - they don't do a good enough job in my opinion.
    Or there is, at least, a lot of room to do better!

    I would hold off on criticism of the traits of Desert Archer until we see the storyline of the event. I agree there are some crew where the traits do not quite make sense but they are the exceptions not the rule or they are trait issues that are debatable. The evidence of consistency is everywhere as evidenced by people having to cherry pick examples. Most Federation crew have the Federation trait. Most Starfleet crew have the Starfleet trait. Remember that DB needs to make revenue by selling new crew. There are only six skills to do combos on so DB needs to add some variety in traits to reduce redundancy. If two Archers had the same skills and same traits why would I need to buy the new one? Remember too that DB does listen and suggestions on traits do get looked at and sometimes changed.
  • Weyoun 69Weyoun 69 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    The whole game is inconsistent, from traits, to names and storylines. So does it really matter!!

    Some of us have spent more than three years playing this game and investing in building our crew. Yes, it matters.

    @Matt_Decker , I am not sure if you meant to come off sounding elitist, but it does. You are by no means the only one. Apologies if taken in a different context to your intention.

    Yeh, I'm one of those players from day one too, and invested for more than 3 years in building my crew too; long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are at what time regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.

    I was reacting to "So does it really matter!!" I wouldn't play this game if it didn't matter to me. My point about the time I've put into the game was to show how much it matters to me. I imagine it matters to lots of other players, too. I think when someone flippantly says "does it really matter" it's generally a copout.

    Firstly, regardless of how active or vocal I have been before or not, my post is as valid as anyone else's and I wouldn't dream of calling someone's opinion a 'copout'.

    @Matt_Decker It clearly matters to some extent for you, me, and players, all of us who have been playing for 3 years and continue to play, otherwise we wouldn't be. At no point did I say I didn't care. My point about 'does it really matter?' about the debate on traits and consistency - by no means made as a copout - is that we care enough to have these debates and exchange views because it matters and means something to us, ...but it clearly doesn't matter to DB to the same level, not even close.
    So does it really matter? Let me explain.

    How often are traits changed or added because of what someone is saying on the forums? How many years have clear, integral and obvious traits been missing from various crew in this game. Look at the Trait Audit thread! Look at just a few comments above. How many names are inconsistent from other characters in the same episodes? Just look at example above, Robin Hood and Little John Riker! etc.

    They have only ever changed glaring omissions, or switched obvious mistakes they think they have made. We still have crew with missing race traits in this game, let alone missing skills that are obvious from the character they portray in an episode. The debates over storyline consistency traits, such as this Voq Tyler one, are simply not important enough to DB to consider, even if they have seen the show! I mean if its hard enough for us who have seen the episodes to explain it in a sentence.
    It doesn't matter to DB, so it doesn't matter to me anymore. It is what it is.
    Why expect DB to get this story-consistent?

    This Voq -Tyler debate is moot, just as the Kazon Seska Bajoran debate is now, as it isn't glaring mistakes they think they have made on their part, and it doesn't matter to DB anywhere near as much as it may to @Matt_Decker, me , or anyone on here.
    Besides, in this case it works in favour of the player base, we get an extra event bonus crew card.
    That's why for me, it doesn't matter. DB will do DB!
    It doesn't matter that it means so much to us if it doesn't to DB.
    If you want to continue the fight for consistent traits and names in this game, fair play, and power to you. After 3 years, I know it wont go anywhere.
    I am just going to continue on with the event as they have stated, with Voq as a Tyler, and move forward!
  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »

    ...long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are at what time regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    ...is that we care enough to have these debates and exchange views because it matters and means something to us, ...but it clearly doesn't matter to DB to the same level, not even close.
    So does it really matter? Let me explain.

    And I thought DB was inconsistent, you first use a derisive term, chastising other people for having a fruitful debate.

    And your mannerism comes across as "lalala been there done that, don't bother, db does nothing." Fair enough that's your opinion. If you believe this forum is for having debates why chasten opinions and debates that are freely made by others in the spirit of what a forum is intended for.
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  • Weyoun 69Weyoun 69 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »

    ...long enough to know that people bickering over who Voq and Tyler are at what time regarding traits in a game full of trait inconsistencies is meaningless. We know that DB will do what DB does regardless.
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    ...is that we care enough to have these debates and exchange views because it matters and means something to us, ...but it clearly doesn't matter to DB to the same level, not even close.
    So does it really matter? Let me explain.

    And I thought DB was inconsistent, you first use a derisive term, chastising other people for having a fruitful debate.

    And your mannerism comes across as "lalala been there done that, don't bother, db does nothing." Fair enough that's your opinion. If you believe this forum is for having debates why chasten opinions and debates that are freely made by others in the spirit of what a forum is intended for.

    I'm not intending to chastise anyone, that's not who I am and apologise for that and my mannerisms if that's how it comes across. I am only further explaining a point and my opinion when I was told I gave a 'copout' comment. Stopping the debate is not my intention.

    I've only tried to emphasise DB's track record and that arguing over it wont really get anywhere. There was heated debate earlier in the thread, regarding whether Voq and Tyler should be one and the same at all times or not because of the storyline. Yes, the forums is the place for it, it is the only thing we as players can do, and we should debate it. It still doesn't make calls for changing traits any less trivial in the result of getting any traits changed. This goes back to the old forums too, where multiple threads spoke about such inconsistencies. I'm not trying to chasten any opinions, or say 'don't bother', only to give my own, which may be unpopular but is still an opinion that, I too, am freely making on a forum as intended.

    I've simply been making the point that DB don't make these sorts of changes regardless of how passionate we are and what is discussed. DB confirmed Voq had been defined as counting as a Tyler, we all get to use an extra crew!

    Good luck in the event to all this week folks. I hope Voq gets some use by us all.
  • Matt_DeckerMatt_Decker ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    Good luck in the event to all this week folks. I hope Voq gets some use by us all.

    Thanks, I'm looking forward to putting Voq to good use, too.
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  • IronagedaveIronagedave ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weyoun 69 wrote: »
    Good luck in the event to all this week folks. I hope Voq gets some use by us all.

    Thanks, I'm looking forward to putting Voq to good use, too.

    Agreed.

    On a new note is anybody else considering pulling out Smiley for this Event, after Undercover O'brien the base stats on the other purples are quite weak.
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